EPISODE 42: Shan Huang
Shan Huang (technically Huang Shan) is a budding bridge legend. His frequent successes at tournaments earned him multiple Richmond trophies, the Canadian masterpoint race, before he immigrated to the US’ greener bridge pastures. He is in a formidable partnership with Floridian Kevin Dwyer.
Link to Audio Only Version of Episode
Episode Highlights:
1:40- Huang Shan
11:33- Why Shan moved from Canada to USA
19:30- His experience at a Chinese monastery
24:10- Descriptions of Justin Lall (RIP)
28:45- How Shan’s partnership with Kevin Dwyer came to be
32:35- The power of preempts against precision players
35:30- The biggest advantage of strong club systems
41:45- Shan’s mentors
49:54- A tragic hand
1:02:45- Another minus 1660 hand that costed John $1600+
1:07:27- Who does Shan most want to partner with?
1:13:22- How rating bridge hands is like rating peoples’ attractiveness
1:19:00- Shan hates squealing
Transcript:
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, here today, I’ve got my man, Shan Huang, to carry the day because he is such a raconteur. He’s a great player, and we’re going to really listen to what he’s saying and we’re going to – he’s going to make it happen for us today. Shan.
SHAN HUANG: Well, first of all, it’s Huang Shan, remember? [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: What do your parents call you?
SHAN HUANG: Huang Shan. Well, I mean, I have some little nicknames and stuff. Well, in China, we call last name first, and then first name. So, it’s just the order is different.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, your first name is –
SHAN HUANG: It’s Shan.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, it is Shan?
SHAN HUANG: It is Shan, yeah. We call the last name first. So, in China, we call people like, “Huang Shan,” because Huang is the last name, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you switched your name. You’re originally – you were born in China.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You moved to Canada. I don’t know how old you were.
SHAN HUANG: When I was 14.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Fourteen? Oh wow. Like, Yao Ming, for example. On the back of his Rockets jersey, it said Yao.
SHAN HUANG: It says Yao because Yao is his last name, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right. So, which is your last name?
SHAN HUANG: Huang. Huang’s my last name.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you changed it around when you moved to Canada.
SHAN HUANG: Well, I didn’t exactly change it because they just asked, “What is your family name?” Which is the last name, which is Huang, and the first name is Shan. So, you know, the way it’s called here is just “Shan Huang.”
JOHN MCALLISTER: The reason that we’re having this conversation is because our very good mutual friend, who unfortunately is deceased – Justin Lall – would call you “Huang Shan.”
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. He – I think he just heard some of my Chinese friends call me “Huang Shan,” so he was just like, “Oh, that’s fun. I didn’t know you were supposed to be called like that.” Then, he started just calling me “Huang Shan.” [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So literally, in China, you call people by the first name, then their last name?
SHAN HUANG: By their last name, then first name.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Ah, OK.
SHAN HUANG: Like, you would be, “McAllister John.”
JOHN MCALLISTER: Gotcha, gotcha. So, that’s what’s normal to call – that’s how it’s normal to address people.
SHAN HUANG: In China, yes, yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Ah, OK. Alright. Yeah, OK, got it. Thank you. That took longer than maybe it should have.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you moved to the U.S. at 14, but you’d already learned bridge when you were 12 from your parents.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, pretty much. My family liked to play card games. I’d play card games with my family when I was a kid. And I think it was around 12, they just brought up bridge. I mean, they don’t really know much about it, but they know the basic rules, like you have to bid, and you take tricks, and you make your contract kind of thing.
So, I was playing with my cousin. We both thought it was kind of fun, like something new, so we kind of learned it. I wouldn’t say we actually knew how to play bridge, but we started learning some concepts, just some basic ones.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you – are your parents still alive?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you still play cards with them?
SHAN HUANG: No, I’m too old for that. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: You don’t play cards – like, when I go my parents’ house for dinner, we play hearts, the three of us.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, I see. Nowadays, sometimes I play mahjong with them, but not cards anymore. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Are you much better than them in mahjong?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, but I mean, there are a lot of people who’s better than me. But I’m better than my parents, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: People talk about – mahjong comes up pretty frequently, like I would say when bridge is mentioned. I haven’t played since I was – I don’t remember how the game is played. Are they similar?
SHAN HUANG: Well, not really, no. It’s a totally different game, I would say. The only similarity is that you need four people to play. [Laughter] You use tiles instead of cards, and you don’t have a partner. And there’s more luck in mahjong than bridge, for sure. And I mean, different regions in China have different rules. The place I was born, I like our rules, obviously. It’s simple, exciting, and it’s pretty popular in China now, the rules we use.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And where in China were you born?
SHAN HUANG: I was born in Chengdu, Sichuan. It’s where the pandas are from, so.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’ve been to Chengdu.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, you have? How nice.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I have.
SHAN HUANG: Did you go to a panda zoo?
JOHN MCALLISTER: I did not. We did a screening of Double Dummy, the original version of Double Dummy, there in 2019.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, nice.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, so – but I didn’t see the pandas. So, I sort of – I don’t know if I really deserve credit for having been there. But –
SHAN HUANG: No. Basically, you’ve never been there.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Have you seen the pandas?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, multiple times, yeah. Every time when my friends come to Chengdu, obviously, I take them to see the pandas. Some of them just love it. Some of them are just like, it’s a couple more pandas.
JOHN MCALLISTER: In a zoo, though. Not like –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, it’s like a panda zoo. So, the zoo basically has pandas, and it has red pandas, which is smaller. I don’t know why it’s still called “panda,” but anyway. Yeah, the zoo just has mostly pandas, not other animals.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What was it like for you to move from China to Canada as a 14-year-old?
SHAN HUANG: Well, I mean, I have to get used to obviously speaking English. I wasn’t really speaking much English. I went to high school here, didn’t really understand much what the teachers were saying. Had to make new friends, obviously, and I had to adjust to food. I really like the Chinese food. I still do. [Laughter] Eventually, you get used to it. I mean, it’s just a different place to live.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Going back to my visit to Chengdu…so I was like, the guest of honor at this banquet of the Chengdu Bridge Association, I suppose. It was at a hotel.
SHAN HUANG: Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I had an escort, like a translator, a son of a bridge player who didn’t really play. So, I’m at this – there’s the meal, and they’re asking me about the food.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so, I say – when you talk about food, I am sort of naïve to – I’ve been to China a couple of times, but I’m kind of naïve when it comes to, really, Chinese food. And so, I say, “Well, I really like sesame chicken.” [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, they bring out this chicken that’s like, these little balls of chicken. And it’s hard to eat because the bones are sort of right there. And they ask me about it. And so, I say, “Well, I like sesame chicken.” [Laughter] So then, they just brought out this bowl of sesame seeds and dumped it on…[laughter].
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: And I’m like, “Thank you.” [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Well, at least you got some chicken. I mean –
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Oh, man. When you started eating Canadian cuisine, what did you – what was the first thing that you kind of like –
SHAN HUANG: Well, the first thing I liked was McDonald’s, probably. [Laughter] We have some of those in China. And KFC, I like because those were – in China, I’ve had. There are a lot of good Western food I like. A good steak or some seafood or whatever. But one thing about myself is that I don’t like cheese or onions, so that takes away a lot of options. That’s why a lot of Western restaurants, I am just a little like a hard customer because every time, I have to tell them a lot, like what I don’t like to be on my food. So, my conversation is always longer than the other people ordering. Like me ordering usually takes like, three minutes at least.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And you live in Toronto. I imagine there’s a pretty large Chinese population.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah. Toronto has all different kinds – it’s a multicultural city. It has a lot of Chinese, a lot of other Asians, like the Koreans and stuff. So, I mean, whatever food you want, you can pretty much eat in Toronto.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, do you eat mostly Chinese food when you’re there?
SHAN HUANG: Well, I mean, it depends. I also moved to Florida in 2017, so I spent some time there. I traveled most of the time playing bridge tournaments. So, when I’m actually back in Toronto visiting my family and stuff, this is my time to eat Chinese food. So, I usually just eat Chinese.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Because I think that would be really hard. Having been to China, and the cuisine is so different, I think, than American Chinese food, I think it would be really hard to change culture and have to –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, I mean, eventually – I mean, every city or every food or different types of people, they all have their good things about them and bad things about them, right? So, I don’t think that there’s really – you know, one thing is really better than the other. It’s just your personal preference and eventually, you get used to some things.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you really live in Florida, or are you just trying to say that to keep the bridge cops off your tracks?
SHAN HUANG: I do spend some time there. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Does your address happen to be the same as your bridge partner, Kevin Dwyer?
SHAN HUANG: No, it’s actually not. It’s some other bridge player. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Is Vinny D., another Canadian who immigrated to the U.S. – is Vinny D. a resident of that same dwelling?
SHAN HUANG: Wait, wait. We’re not living under the same household, no. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Who’s the bridge player?
SHAN HUANG: I’m with Kevin Bathurst. And Vinny D., he’s not – I don’t know who he’s with.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You won the Richmond Trophy multiple times, which is for Canada’s top Masterpoint winner. Right?
SHAN HUANG: Uh-huh, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You moved to the U.S. so you could play in the – represent the United States in bridge. Right?
SHAN HUANG: Right, exactly. Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What was that decision like? Was it a long time coming?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. Well, I mean, one reason is I – my regular partner, Kevin Dwyer, he’s U.S. and he plays the trials. And also, I mean, I’ve been – I’ve played the U.S. team trials a couple of times, and it’s an excellent event. Basically, similar in intensity – competition and everything is very similar to one of the big team events, like a Spingold or Vanderbilt. I mean, obviously, there’s no foreigners. It’s a little easier to win the trials than these [inaudible] or Vanderbilt, but still. This is a very prestigious event which I would love to participate. And also, as I said, my regular partner, Kevin Dwyer, is in the United States. So, it just makes more sense to do it this way.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Also, as a professional player, which you are, the U.S. team trials and then possibly playing on an American team in the World Championships – I mean, that’s a big payday for –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah. And also, at some point – don’t get me wrong. I mean, I love Canada and all, but it’s very hard for Canada to have a team to have any chance in our Bermuda Bowl, right? I actually represented Canada in 2015 in Bermuda Bowl. We didn’t make it to the top eight. It’s just hard for Canada to have a team to have a chance to win the Bermuda Bowl, and as a bridge player, that is my career. At some point, I would like to have a chance to win. Still a long way, but –
JOHN MCALLISTER: You haven’t won the U.S.A. 1 or U.S.A. 2 in that –
SHAN HUANG: No, no. No, not yet. That’s also another thing that’s pretty hard to do, but hopefully at some point, I can do it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s your team for this upcoming trials?
SHAN HUANG: Joyce, Joyce Hill. Kevin Dwyer. And this time, we have Joel Woolridge and Billy Grainger. And so, we’re five-handed.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Does Kevin play all of the boards, or do you play some boards with Joyce as well?
SHAN HUANG: No, Kevin plays half with Joyce, half with me.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Were your Canadian bridge friends supportive of your leaving? Expecting it? Did they ask you – was it hard?
SHAN HUANG: I don’t think anyone really asked me about it too much. I mean, they sort of see it coming. A lot of bridge players move to the states from Canadian – like Hampson, for example, and Vinny D. as I mentioned.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Gitelman.
SHAN HUANG: Gitelman, yeah. Exactly.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Gavin.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, Gavin. Yeah, exactly. So, it’s just something – there’s a bigger market and stuff in the U.S., so that’s just where it kind of naturally progresses.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Going back to your move from China to Canada – did the fact that maybe you didn’t – it sounds like you didn’t really speak English before you got here. Did that kind of drive you more into bridge? And how did you find bridge?
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Not really, no. I mean, to play bridge, it wasn’t like I loved bridge since I was a kid, you know, like that was my goal since I was five years old. It didn’t work out like that. It’s really kind of random, to be honest with you. When I was 12, I learned some basics about bridge from my parents, right? Now, when I moved to Canada, I just played some bridge online on actually a Chinese platform called Ourgame. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s not popular anymore but at that point, around 2004-5ish, a lot of people play random card games there.
So, I played some bridge online, and I didn’t really know what I was doing, but learned some card trick-taking techniques by just playing cards. And then, eventually, I started going to bridge clubs and met new people, and eventually started traveling, going to tournaments and stuff. And I was lucky. I met some good friends, some really good bridge players. I could talk about bridge with them and learn from them, learn from my mistakes, learn by playing, et cetera. Eventually, I was good enough to play bridge professionally.
[0:14:19.8]
Yeah, so that’s basically how it works. It wasn’t really any part of any plan. I just like the game and playing more and more. Eventually, I was luckily good enough to play professionally.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How did you end up at a bridge club?
SHAN HUANG: Oh, as I said, I played bridge when I was in high school, just online. So, when I went to University of Toronto, it has a bridge club called – I think it was called “Heart House” or something like that. Anyway, so that’s a club that one activity is bridge. I think it was Tuesday nights. I was like, oh well, I know how to play bridge, let’s check it out. So, I went there. Not many people there. You know, bridge is a – we all know bridge is kind of like a minority, like a dying game or whatever. So, not a lot of people there, but it was my first time to actually play bridge in a club when there’s a score, bidding boxes, stuff like that. So, I mean, I was – I liked it, so…and I just played more and more.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I first saw you in Taicang for the Junior Championships.
SHAN HUANG: Right, in 2012.
JOHN MCALLISTER: 2012, yeah.
SHAN HUANG: I was playing with Tom Walsh, who unfortunately also passed away. I don’t remember who introduced us, to be honest with you. But at that point, I didn’t have a bridge partner. Actually, the first time I represented Canada in the Junior Championships was 2010. At that point, I just started going to bridge clubs and just learned a little bit about playing duplicate at bridge with a person, like in real time.
And we went to Philadelphia. I was the under-21 team, I believe, yeah. And I played with a Chinese girl, with a couple of other people. I mean, we didn’t do very well. Our team wasn’t too strong. But that was my first major tournament. And I liked it. It was a lot of fun. I met all the people all over the world – Germany, Sweden. At that point, I actually knew a lot of the other people were better than we were – better than I was, better than the rest of the team. Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so, you played under-26 in Taicang.
SHAN HUANG: I played under-26 in Taicang and under-26 in Turkey in 2014. And then, I got too old.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What was your first professional engagement?
SHAN HUANG: I’ve had people hire me a little bit – like, locations. I remember, I think there was one guy we played. Like he was just visiting Toronto. He usually lives in China, and he was in Toronto to play some card games, I think. Made a couple hundred bucks or something like that. And there was a national where I played two or three days with another gentleman from China for a couple hundred.
[0:17:02.7]
The first real tournament I played, like the whole week tournament I played professionally was with Richard Chen, I think. It kind of all started at the end of 2012. I started playing, going to tournaments with Richard, and also with [Joe Mennis, Ordensen, and David Savern]. And then, I started playing some with Jonathan Steinberg, then I played some – then I started playing with Kevin Dwyer and played on his team. Just moved on.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you finish college?
SHAN HUANG: No, I actually finished three years, so it was a – yeah. I’ve heard a lot of people saying, “Why didn’t you finish the fourth year?” But I mean, one year is a lot of time. I mean, if I’m not going to do that, whatever I was doing, it just wasn’t worth it. I mean, why would I just spend one year of my life just to get a degree where I’m just never going to use?
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you had started getting hired by the time that – you saw professional bridge as that’s what you wanted to do.
SHAN HUANG: It’s a little complicated.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] I actually quit school not to play bridge. I actually went to a monastery in China for a couple months, you know, to study the meaning of life and stuff like that. [Laughter] It wasn’t too successful, yeah, but it wasn’t – I mean, I shouldn’t say it’s not successful. I decided not to stay there, put it this way. And then, I came back. I didn’t want to go back to school or anything, so I just started playing more bridge and going to tournaments and stuff.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How did you find the monastery?
SHAN HUANG: I have a friend who’s – we were in first year of college. He’s like, a big believer in Buddhism, and he taught – he introduced Buddhism to me. I mean, it’s an interesting concept, right? Things like where do people come from, and where do you go after you die, these kinds of things. It was interesting, these kinds of things. But whatever he was saying, I mean, there’s no proof or anything, so you know, the theory or whatever concept they have is – it’s interesting.
So, I was just learning some things with him. He actually quit school after the first year, so he went to the monastery in China and stayed there ever since, actually. So, after three years, I just decided I’m just going to check it out. What is it really like? Like, is it – whatever their theory is – they say you are going to whatever – heaven or hell, or whatever their theory is. Is it actually true, or what’s going on? I just wanted to check it out, so I went there. I mean, if I actually ended up believing it, there’s a good chance I would just stay there, too. But no, that wasn’t what happened.
[0:19:56.8]
JOHN MCALLISTER: What did your parents say when you told them you were going to this monastery?
SHAN HUANG: Well, they’re obviously not – I actually didn’t tell them the details about it. I just said, “I’m going to China for a couple of months.” [Laughter] You know, just to have some fun. But I think eventually, they found out I went to the monastery. They were very – they were a little scared I’m not coming back because I’m the only child, right? I mean, I can feel how they feel.
That’s another reason they don’t really say much about me playing bridge other than, you know, finding a normal job and stuff like that. Because anything’s better than being a monk and not able to see me anymore, you know? [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: What was the monastery like?
SHAN HUANG: Oh, it’s a huge one, actually. It’s a Tibet – like Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism kind of monastery. It’s Western – it’s on the west side of Sichuan Province, like close to Tibet. I mean, I was there in 2011. At that point, the monastery has over 10,000 people. Like it’s the largest one in the world, I think. It’s crazy, yeah. It has all these red houses. Now, it becomes a tourist site, almost, in China. So, a lot of people just go there to do the tourism and stuff.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Is it for men and women, or just men?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. There’s about 10:1 ratio, something like that?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Of men to women?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it doesn’t really – they’re not getting married anyway, so we don’t need the right ratio.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] What was the point at which you decided that you were going to leave the monastery?
SHAN HUANG: The point that I just don’t think whatever they’re saying has enough proof. I grew up learning math and science, and very – I need logic and proof to back me up kind of thing. I’m not like, too spiritual, as in – I liked to think about these things when I was a kid, but I don’t just believe in something because someone tells me to or because I chose to kind of thing. I need to see this is actually real, like you have to prove it to me kind of thing. So, when I was there, basically what they were saying is – I mean, this is too religious, what we’re talking about? [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: We certainly can stop talking about it.
[0:22:13.5]
SHAN HUANG: No, no. I don’t mind. I mean, whatever. So, whatever they’re saying is just not – I mean, doesn’t have enough proof. I mean, it’s all spiritual. They give me a lot of stories and stuff. But it’s not like – I’ve never seen anything like – what my friend told me was he’s saying someone predicting something like, seven days later to prove that what they’re saying is right kind of thing. But I’ve never seen any proof like that when I was there, so it was just all talk. So eventually I’m like OK, whatever, man. I don’t believe you guys anymore. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Alright, let’s switch topic. Justin Lall, a friend of both of ours, died a year ago. What’s your favorite J- Lall story?
SHAN HUANG: Wow, there’s just countless – like so many of them. There are a lot of fun ones about J- Lall. Well, I’ll tell you my impression of him. I mean, maybe it’s not that funny or anything, but what I like the most to talk to J- Lall about was bridge, to be honest with you.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, yeah.
SHAN HUANG: It’s just the way we do bridge is just so similar. It’s like finding someone who actually knows what you’re thinking about kind of thing. So, we talk about suit combinations, and what he sees as a suit combination where I see a new suit combination, we just share. And it’s just a lot of fun. And also, when there’s a hand, like an angle to look at a hand – for example, we lose 12 MPs on this hand. How do we look at it? Who screwed up? Or a declare problem, or mentality of the game, et cetera, et cetera. Or just a little defensive problem, or what do you do kind of thing.
Just everything, we talk about bridge, and also about the ethics about bridge. I mean, we kind of have this similar idea. He used to think bridge is kind of like a broken game, like the rules, because the ethics itself is just very hard. Like, you need people to actually be ethical themselves. I know there’s a lot of rules and stuff to stop people being unethical, but if you really want to, there’s still a lot of [inaudible] you can take without being caught, basically. I’m not talking about cheating, exactly, but small hesitations and taking advantage of the situations you’re not supposed to take advantage of. These things are, in a way, unavoidable. So, mostly, we just talked about bridge. He’s definitely one of a kind. Loves to party.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] And died far too young. Much too young. He was your teammate, though, on the Hill team.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah, exactly. His ethics is just beyond. Actually, I was looking at some of the posts for saying about J-Lall. I mean, a lot of people are saying how good of a bridge player he is, how fun of a person he is. He’s got great ethics, obviously. One thing I think people actually never mentioned…since he parties a lot, maybe he gives people the impression that he’s not that responsible. I just wanted to say here, I actually think he’s very responsible regarding bridge. I mean, we’ve been on the same team for a long time. He’s never late for a single session. Every time he sat at the bridge table, either playing with me or at the other table, he’s always given 100% of his game.
[0:25:41.7]
At the National, he always – he doesn’t share a room with anyone at the National just because he wants to have the best of him at the bridge table. And he wants – he has his weird sleeping schedule, whatever. He goes to bed late, but he knows he needs certain hours of sleep. So, he actually cares a lot if he’s fully awake or not kind of thing. He prepares himself to 100% always when he comes to the bridge table.
And regarding ethics, he’s just – I mean… [Laughter] There were times when he’s going to tell me a hand where basically, you win the trick, and you can just make an obvious play because this is just obvious. You just shift through dummies, three small, kind of thing. But he would do something like – because partner thoughts on the auction, therefore shifting through three small is obviously the right play. And then, he’s going to construct a hand where he’s going to do the wrong thing. So, I’m not even sure if this is the right thing to do or not – just depends on people’s perspective. But I’m definitely not on that level. I’m not taking advantage of my partner’s hesitation stuff, but I’m not going to try to do the wrong thing.
Even the way he plays bridge, obviously he lost a lot of edge doing these kinds of things, but he still does very well in bridge. That proves how good of a bridge player he is.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you know he was sick?
SHAN HUANG: I didn’t know he was going to die this fast kind of thing. I knew he was not doing well health wise. He’s always had some kind of liver problem because he obviously drank too much.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you and KD –
SHAN HUANG: KD, I met him – it was actually funny because I was – in 2013, I started playing with Steinberg, right? So, I played a lot of tournaments with Steinberg, and I think the beginning of 2014, KD needs a player on his team. So, he actually emailed Steinberg and asked for my contact. So technically, Steinberg hooked us up, so. [Laughter]
Anyway, so that’s – yeah. The first tournament I played, I think it was actually in Palmetto. Well, I wasn’t playing with KD. KD was playing with two sponsors, and I was playing with another pro at the other table. Yeah, that was our first tournament. We weren’t regular partners back then. We were just teammates, played a lot of tournaments together. Eventually, we both liked how we played. We tried it out. And I actually think for bridge partnership, usually one guy is more – you know, takes more actions, takes more positions and more aggressive. And you need another player to be more like solid kind of thing. So, me and KD, it’s a good match, I think. He’s more aggressive, more – I’m more solid kind of thing.
It’s actually interesting because if you see all these – all the top-level partnerships, they all work like that. So, yeah, I think it’s a good match. And we started playing together pretty much since 2016. We started playing Nationals together since 2017. I mean, obviously, we have our ups and downs, but I’m happy how we played in general, and we have been always improving systemwide for signals, how we think about bridge stuff. We also talk a lot about bridge, obviously.
[0:29:16.8]
JOHN MCALLISTER: And you guys play strong club?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, we play strong club. We have thought about playing two systems, switching to two systems. Strong club when the opponents are vulnerable, and two over one when they’re not, just to avoid their interference when we open the strong club.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s going to be the thing that drives the decision whether or not to go to two systems or not?
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Mostly –
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s the reason you haven’t done it yet?
SHAN HUANG: It’s just memory work. WE needed to put in more work, and also, there are a lot of two over one systems we can play. We can play a basic one. We can play more like a Swedish short club. Stuff like that. So, we haven’t exactly decided. And to be honest, actually, after the pandemic, we’re not less busier. There’s a lot of online bridge going on. So, one tournament after the other, when we’re not playing tournaments, we also play a lot of club games with sponsors and stuff. So, it takes away a lot of time. We also need some time to rest and stuff. We didn’t really have the timing to do these things yet.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Which one of the two of you is more enthused about playing two systems?
SHAN HUANG: I think we’re about the same. [Laughter] We have both brought it up at different times, but haven’t done it yet. And there’s also a lot of things we keep improving with our precision system. And also, in competitive auctions, that’s another area we have a lot of pages of notes about because that’s actually, in a way, maybe more important than adding a different system. Because now, people just bid, so you just need to know what’s going on in competitive auctions more often than having your own relay system or whatever to figure out who has the jack of diamonds kind of thing.
JOHN MCALLISTER: We had a newer player from Australia ask about playing strong club. What is your favorite thing about playing strong club? I think I have a guess at what your least favorite thing is.
SHAN HUANG: My least favorite thing?
[0:31:25.1]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Want to hear my guess?
SHAN HUANG: Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think your least favorite thing is when you open a strong club and your opponents preempt you. You haven’t bid any of your suits yet. That’s what I would say your least favorite thing is. That’s my guess.
SHAN HUANG: Yes, yes, absolutely.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’ve only played strong club like, once, in a club game.
SHAN HUANG: Yes, absolutely, yeah. And especially the [kilding] bid is three spades because with three spades you’re under so much pressure, you can either bypass three notrump, or you have to double, basically, with any hand with some points. And the other guy also is under a lot of pressure because both sides now are, in a way, un-omitted, and you need to find the string, you need to find the level, and you’re already at three spades. No one has a better suit.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So yeah, next time playing against me, you can just bid three spades. Doesn’t matter what your hand is.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s the worst three-spades bid you’ve seen – [laughter] – when you both had the strong club?
SHAN HUANG: I mean, to be honest, I don’t remember exactly, but I’m sure some people did it with like, jack six and else, six-three-two-two. I’m sure people have done that, especially white against red. I mean, I might do it myself, to be honest.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: But this is like, a double-edge sword.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Inaudible] a five-card suit, though?
SHAN HUANG: I don’t think I’ve seen people doing a five-card suit against me, but I’ve seen my partner opening five-card suits a lot. Not three spades, though. Mostly three over minor.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] What is your diamond opening?
SHAN HUANG: Because that means two plus. I mean, this auction comes up a lot, actually, where it goes one diamond, four hearts, double pass to you. And I mean, you pretty much just have to pass with diamonds hand, but partner doubling could just be, you know, 4-0-5-4. I mean, what’s he going to do, right? He has to double. So, these kinds of things are just – I mean, you lose your 11-card diamond fits sometimes. It is just what it is. So, opening a minor with – like 11 diamond, it doesn’t give away that information, but at the same time, it’s just hard. When opponents bid, it’s just hard to find your minor to sort out which minor you are going to play at what level. So, yeah, strong clubs is good with our competition. But now, since everyone bids…
[0:33:46.4]
In general, they’re very similar. I mean, I’m talking about the edge. The edge I’m talking about is still very small, right? Because you know. But if I have to say because of the ways people bid nowadays, I think a more natural system is probably slightly better than strong club, just in general. Or if you want to play two systems, that probably is the ideal way to deal with it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What are the wins?
SHAN HUANG: For strong club?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SHAN HUANG: Well, there’s a couple. Well, first of all, I think the biggest advantage is if you don’t open a club, that’s when you win. Because your hand now is limited, right? So, you can open a diamond and then next time, you bid three clubs with any hand. You know, 5-5. You don’t have to worry about partner thinking you have so much. You can make a takeout double very aggressively because partner’s going to know you have shape. Like for example, if you open a diamond, it goes two hearts pass three hearts, or something. Or let’s say it goes diamond, one heart pass two hearts, something like that. If you play natural system, you double here, you could have like, for instance, 18, 19 diamonds. That’s a big problematic hand. Or you could just have a lot of shape with zero or one heart. You play strong club, you double here, and you just have hearts shown, period. Or if it goes one diamond, four hearts, pass, pass, double, you have hearts showing, period, and you have a decent hand. But on the other hand, playing a natural system, you might be 18, 19 diamonds, so partner doesn’t know whether or not to pull it or not kind of thing.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What about setting trumps at a lower level? Do you play relays where you can find the jack of diamonds?
SHAN HUANG: No, no. We don’t – we cannot find the jack of diamonds. [Laughter] We just – hopefully, it drops or something.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
[0:35:35.7]
SHAN HUANG: Now, we don’t play relays. The relay system, I think – one big problem is you can’t – for example, if I find out you are 2-5, 2-4, I don’t know if you have king queen tight and five small, or two small and king queen fifth. So, these two hands obviously make a huge difference. I mean, it does have its advantage, don’t get me wrong. But that part – I just feel there’s – it’s less flexible and less creative. And I think both me and Kevin, we like to be creative sometimes. So, you know, sometimes with a king queen doubleton, you just treat it as a three card or something like that, right? But in relay, you cannot do anything like that because it’s just going to screw up the whole relay auction.
I think relay’s not great for choice of games. Relay is the best if no one interferes and you need to get to like, seven diamonds or something. Talking about jack of diamonds again. [Laughter] So, that’s the best edge they have. We find out if we have like, the ace queen tight tops the king and one, that’s only two tricks kind of thing. Those things in natural systems, it’s harder to find out. But I mean, yeah, we’re not playing relays. It just feels like we have to put a lot of memory work into it, and no one proves to me this is better. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: How many pages of system notes do you and Kevin have right now?
SHAN HUANG: We have close to 100. Yeah, not that many, actually. [Laughter] I know some partnerships have way more system – way more pages, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Eric Kokish has – have you ever seen what Eric Kokish’s system is?
SHAN HUANG: No, no.
JOHN MCALLISTER: He’s got like, 400 pages. [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Four hundred. I know Bobby and Steve, they actually have 4, 500, if I’m not mistaken.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Wow.
SHAN HUANG: And guess what? They don’t even play any relay at all. Their system is, if you look at what they play, it’s mama papa. It’s like two over one, one clubs three plus. Everything’s like, whatever – strong notrump. But their system notes – I mean, I haven’t’ seen them myself but from what I understand, a lot of it is just in competitions, like what does this bid mean in competition, and it goes double, and I bid four notrump, and they double. What does my pass mean? What does my re-double mean? Et cetera, et cetera, these kinds of things. Which are very important, to be honest. A lot of the high-level auctions, when I play with different partners including Kevin, some of the auctions we never talk about, we just have to guess, right? We have to think about the logic and stuff.
Well, the good thing is most of the time, we’re on the same page, but not the 100%. Especially when some auction comes up, one person thinks it’s natural, the other one thinks it’s a cue bid. That doesn’t work. That’s not going to work out very well. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, Bobby and Steve are Bobby Levin and Steve Weinstein.
SHAN HUANG: Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s your playing record like against those two guys?
SHAN HUANG: I don’t remember anything in particular. I think the best thing about their game is they just don’t make a lot of unforced errors. They do reasonable things, like everything they do feels reasonable. They’re not going to get to a ridiculous contract. They have good agreements about low-level competitions and stuff. They have good judgments, and when the contract can be bid, they bid the contract. They are not – they don’t do things like, you know, they don’t overcall three spades with jack-six a lot, you know? They don’t do things like that. They don’t drop tricks, basically. I mean, usually, they tend to drop less, fewer tricks than most people, so I think that’s their big [inaudible], which is impressive. This is just some basic bridge skills to win.
JOHN MCALLISTER: When you sit down against them, you think you’re at their level? You think that you expect to win, or –
SHAN HUANG: Well, I mean, realistically, they are obviously better than I am. But when I’m at the table against anyone, I don’t really think I’m worse than them. I mean, I think this is more like a frequency thing. I don’t think there’s anything that anyone does that I don’t know about. However, a great play or whatever, a great bid or whatever, everything I know. Like I’ve seen this, or I know about this, or I could think of that. But it’s a frequency thing. It comes more natural to them, so they get the things right more often than I do. But when I’m playing well, I just feel I can beat anyone, so I never feel like when I’m playing against anyone in the world that I feel, oh, [inaudible], am I scared or anything like that. I don’t feel like that, no. But –
JOHN MCALLISTER: What about bridge mentors? Like, was J- Lall a mentor to you, or like other people?
SHAN HUANG: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Geoff Hampson, [inaudible] from Toronto.
SHAN HUANG: Uh, yeah, I mean, I don’t really know Hampson much. Bridge mentors, I actually – I don’t read – I haven’t read a lot of bridge books, so basically the way I learn bridge is I play the hands, and I look at the hand record. Now online, there’s more hand records, obviously even better. And I used to watch some Vugraph archives just to see what people do with certain hands. It wasn’t even like I was trying to learn bridge. I just found it was interesting. And I talked to different people. Well, first when I was in Canada, I was mostly speaking with Canadians, obviously. Daniel Korbel was one of them, and David [Savern] when I started. We played as a partnership for a while, too, and he – when we started, he was more experienced than I was. I learned something from him.
[0:41:25.6]
J-Lall is definitely – I mean, if I have to name one person, he’s the biggest mentor. At the beginning, we were mostly – I was mostly asking him questions, and later, we were more talking about more like a discussing kind of thing – how we should be dealing with these kind of situations. There’s a lot of people who’s definitely helped me in the bridge career. Yeah, and J- Lall used to play with Kevin Bathurst, so that’s another person I ask a lot of bridge questions.
JOHN MCALLISTER: When you have a difficult problem – let’s say in an online match that you’ve been playing in recently, who would you go to? Can you think of a situation recently where you had – maybe you got a bad result, and you didn’t really know what to do?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. I used to just talk to J- Lall about these hands. But now, I don’t talk. I try to figure it out myself more. But obviously, I still talk to some people. I talk to Kevin Dwyer, obviously. I played some bridge – our national team now is the Rimstedt Brothers – Ola and Mikael, and also their sister, Cecilia. I play with her sometimes in the mixed teams. So, just talking about the bridge hands, like what do you guys think about the situation. Not as often as before, but we still talk about hands sometimes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I remember what I was going to say about J-Lall. So, Justin – I think one of the things that impressed me about him was like, when somebody gives me a bidding problem…let’s say that a friend of mine would send me the whole deal. So, I’d see all 52 cards. And then, she’d ask me about her actions on it, or she’d ask me about her partner’s actions. And I would always be like, “Look, just send me the hand. Don’t send me the whole deal. Send me the hand.” And I think Justin – I was going to ping him this compliment – like I’ve said to this friend multiple times, “Justin Lall’s the one person I know who I feel like would be able to tell you. You can send him the whole deal, and he would still be able to tell you objectively what he would bid with x person’s cards.” Like, it’s hard for me to not result it, and I think Justin – you talk about his ethics. I think – I always wish that she wouldn’t give me the deal because it just was really hard for me to really offer an objective opinion.
SHAN HUANG: Yes, yes, when you know all four hands, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: When I know all four. You know? I’m like, look, you’re going to get a much better answer if you send me just one of the hands.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. You just told me, I’m going for 1400 if I work all two hearts. You know? Guess what? I’m not going to do that. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] It’s like when you give a deal to somebody. The deeper we go into this game, like when you give somebody a bidding problem – let’s say for example, you tell them about your spot cards, like your tens and nines. That tends to be – they want me to bid if I – they want me to bid if they say like, ace, king, ten, nine, eight of hearts.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, it’s like, you’ve got a ten, nine, eight. You know?
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Those are tricks. Justin is definitely – sometimes he makes jokes and stuff. I mean, he could say things like, he could give you spot cards like that. But most of the time, he’s very objective, I would say, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How often do you think about him, about Justin going back to Justin?
SHAN HUANG: Um – when I play bridge, I think about him a lot, actually. Especially when I see a suit combination that we’ve talked about. Then I’m like, oh, this thing again. There are hands where you know you screwed up, right? There are hands where you make a bid – like you don’t know if you’re just being unlucky, or this is just the wrong bid. The thing is, Justin is someone – I mean, he might actually not know the answer when we talk about it, but he would – by talking to him a lot of times, we would come to something. We would talk about the hands and at least have a different angle.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I know you pretty much strictly through being together at bridge tournaments. And for those who don’t know what winning a regional means, I would say that you win a regional when you win the most Masterpoints of anybody in the field for the week. And so, I’ve only won one regional, which was Chattanooga. I was playing with KD, and you and David were our teammates. That’s the only regional that I’ve won.
I’m asking all this because I’m wondering what’s your life like outside of bridge? I have no idea.
SHAN HUANG: I mean, I don’t have a life. [Laughter] No, I’m just kidding. I mean, just normal things, to be honest. Nothing in particular. When I’m not at a bridge tournament – well, before COVID and after COVID are obviously different. I mean, before COVID, I traveled to play bridge. When I’m not playing bridge, I’d just sometimes come to Toronto, visit my family, my old friends, and stuff like that. Sometimes, I’d take a vacation, go to some places. Just all different kinds of things. When I travel so much, sometimes I like to cook myself, to just stay at home, chill. Nothing much.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You make Chinese food?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Sesame chicken?
[0:47:18.1]
SHAN HUANG: Sesame chicken, and I make them all together. I don’t pour the sesame in the end.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you make sesame chicken?
SHAN HUANG: No, no. It’s actually not – I don’t think – the reason you couldn’t get it there was because it’s American Chinese food, so they don’t actually have it in China. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah. How often did you go back to China before COVID?
SHAN HUANG: Once every one to two years, something like that. I usually just go back because there’s a bridge tournament, bridge-related tournament, something like that. And I would usually spend a couple more days there before, or after, or both. But I don’t think I actually go back to China a lot, just because – just for vacation.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you know why your parents moved to Canada?
SHAN HUANG: They just wanted a different environment, mostly.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did they know anybody in Toronto?
SHAN HUANG: Well, it’s a long time ago. I think they know someone who they haven’t spoken with for like, 15 years or something. One of their old high school classmate or something like that. So basically, no. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Can you tell us your worst bridge hand?
SHAN HUANG: Worst bridge hand? Oh.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Or maybe result?
SHAN HUANG: There’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of them. [Laughter] Well, one hand I can think of right now is, I was actually playing with Vince. I had a hand I was 0-1-5-7. I was void stiff, ace, jack, fifth, and king seventh, with some good spot cards. Anyway, so that was my hand, and it was all vulnerable. I was foreseed all vulnerable. I decided to pass, right or wrong, because I didn’t want to open some number of clubs and not able to find a diamond fifth. So anyway, I pass. It goes pass pass, and my partner opened four hearts.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Which is your singleton. For those who don’t know, he has no spades, one heart, five diamonds, and seven clubs.
SHAN HUANG: Right. And my righty overcalled four spades. It’s a weird problem. I decided to bid four notrump. I mean, obviously, this is not key card. So, I just thought, he probably just have hearts. I mean, each bids five hearts – I mean, we’re not beating four spades. It doesn’t look like we’re going to beat four spades. So, if we’re in five hearts, I might have two tricks, you know? They don’t know why I have one heart and no spades, right? They need a spade [inaudible] and cash an ace, at least two tricks. Let’s start with four no. Four no should be two places to play, so either something with hearts or just two minors I think.
Anyway, so I bid four no. He goes double and then left. Now, partner bids five clubs, which was my seven-card suit. So, if we’re on the same page, he preferenced – like, he chose to bid five clubs. He could pass four no, obviously. And I was playing with Vince, so he’s a good player, so I can obviously trust him. Now he goes five clubs pass, so I pass, you know. We hit gold. Partner bid my seven-card suit. Thanks. [Laughter] Now it goes five spades on my left, pass pass to me.
So, this kind of situation’s obviously before you bid, you want to know what you do over six spades, right? Because it looks like the auction might get a little out of control. So, I had the ace of diamonds. I was going to double six spades. I already made up my mind, so I bid six clubs. And also, we might just make six clubs. I cannot defend five spades, only can make a slam.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So, I tried to bid the slam I can make, so I bid six clubs. It goes pass pass, on my righty. Sure enough, I get six spades, and I double was my plan. So, I was on lead. Well, I mean, I led the ace of diamonds because it looks like if partner’s shorting anything, he’s probably shorting diamonds. And also, I can take look in dummy. And dummy had forded zero, king third, king, queen, ten, fifth, and a stiff.
So, I have five diamonds, dummy has five. Some pairs, I’m sure, can figure this out very easily, whether their partner has a singleton or a doubleton. But unfortunately, I couldn’t. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So anyway – and it was a weird situation because partner played the five. I was missing three, five, and a nine. I was missing these three cards. Nine of diamonds, five of diamonds, three of diamonds. Partner played the five, and my righthand opponent played the nine. And we play upset on carding, and my righty is also a good player. He knows we play upset on carding. Vince – like, we are not that much of a regular partnership. I wasn’t 100% sure in this spot if he has five-three doubleton, is he always going to play the three? Because we play upset diamond with two small, you just always play the lowest one.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right, yeah.
SHAN HUANG: Or, this is a spot he’s trying to give me suit preference, saying he has the ace of hearts and not the ace of clubs. And so, I was like – I knew this is like, this hand is properly worth like, 30 MPs or something, so I was in the pen for like, ten minutes. And eventually I was like, well, I think my righty has seen this before. If he has nine-three doubleton, he knows if he plays the nine, I would know he has a three. So, he’s supposed to play the three. So, I was like, OK, I trust him. He probably knows which card to play when he has nine-three doubleton. So, I’m like, OK, so I think partner has five-three doubleton, he’s trying to ask for a heart. And I play the heart.
[0:52:54.5]
And you know, this is another fun thing about this is, you know the next time you play, you are not going to see another card played.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Because declarer’s going to claim for sure, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: The head is over. It’s just [inaudible], and the head is over. Doesn’t matter who you play.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So, I was trying to build hands and stuff. Oh, another reason is I knew partner has an ace, right? Because he really cannot have solid spades and two aces. That’s too good of a hand. He might just bid sixes. Anyway, eventually I was like, well, partner has longer hearts. I have no idea what’s going on in diamond suits, so let’s just go with odds. Partner has longer hearts, I play a heart. And I play a heart, of course, to clear clean. So minus 1660. So, and the worst part about this hand is that if – I’m not just being so clever in what our leading is with diamonds, trying to keep your partner rough or anything. Turns out, by the way, my partner was 1-7-1-4. So, ace of diamonds was the right lead. Ace of diamond, diamond rough, cash the club, 500. And we were called for six clubs. I got to the part at the point I led the ace of diamonds, then it was not the part anymore. Anyway, so the funny thing is if I just lead a club or lead a heart, whatever, they can never make it because I don’t have the timing to build.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So, I led the ace of diamonds, give myself a big problem. And then, I guessed wrong. And, yeah, so that was not a very successful story.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, your partner was – I’m just going to tell the listeners – Vince [Dimui], who we call Vinny D. And what did Vince say? Like where was this – was it in person or online?
SHAN HUANG: It was online. It was actually the J- Lall tournament. Actually, this hand, after I misdefended this hand, I thought of J- Lall, too. I was like, oh my god. J- Lall would be so – J- Lall would not be impressed. [Laughter] This was a Justin Lall USBF tournament, and we had to Zoom. Actually, it wasn’t Zoom, but it was the Real Bridge thing where we can’t see each other. After declare claim, now we can all see everyone’s face. I mean, Vince didn’t say anything, but I’m sure he’s not happy. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
[0:55:20.0]
SHAN HUANG: So, I first pushed him to six spades. I doubled.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: I could have beat him, won like easy. Or I chose to beat him too, and I decided to let him make it. That was the story.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How many MPs did you lose on the deal?
SHAN HUANG: So, I think at the other table, they definitely made five spades. So, it was either five spades double making, or five spades making. So, it was either 650 or 850. So, we lost like, 14, I guess, instead of winning 16. So, I was right, it was a 30-MP swing.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh my gosh.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, sure, I mean –
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] How long can you see your partner in Real Bridge before it goes back? Because Real Bridge has screens.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, I know. It’s ten seconds, but it felt like, you know, two minutes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Oh my god.
SHAN HUANG: And those were the first four out of the box, too.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh my god. The whole event? Or just the match?
SHAN HUANG: No, against that team. It was the first – was it round robin? Yeah, it was round robin, yeah. It was the first board in the round robin.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you win the match?
SHAN HUANG: We didn’t, but actually later, we kind of, you know, started doing better. But no, we did not win the match. We did have some better boards coming up, so yeah. That’s one of the things about playing bridge, too. So, something like this happens, you really need to stay focused. That’s something I think me, personally, I’m pretty good at. Like, I don’t really go on tilt, even if something like this happens, even though obviously, I don’t feel great about it. But you know, life has to move on, so I just move onto the second board.
[0:57:02.4]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you say anything to yourself? Like, OK, let’s start over, or is it just –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah. The way I think about these things are, you just have to – like before I play a heart, I say to myself that OK, I’ve thought this through. I have to play a heart. I know whatever card I play, they’re going to claim, but I still have to play a heart. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So, I always have enough reasons to back me up, so you know – I play a card that I think I can look at the mirror at myself. So, if that’s the case, OK, I know it’s not great for a result, but at least I don’t hate myself. I’ve thought it through. I tried my best. I did the best, what I could at the point. Maybe I should that with two small, partner’s always going to play the smallest one, but I really didn’t know that at the point. I just – I mean, we’re not a regular partnership, so I just had to guess something. So, I, you know, combine all the factors and thought constructive, like 20 hands and then, boom, minus 1660.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you ever talk to Vince about the diamond play? Did you talk to him afterwards?
SHAN HUANG: Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. He was cool about it, actually. He was cool about it. He’s just –
JOHN MCALLISTER: He’s a pretty cool guy.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, he’s a cool guy.
JOHN MCALLISTER: He’s the kind of guy that can handle that.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Yeah, I know.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, especially when your partner tags for ten minutes, right? Oh, here we go. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: My favorite part of this story, of the way you tell it, is how you say you know you’re not going to see another card. You know they’re going to claim. [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Yeah, exactly.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Who was the declarer?
SHAN HUANG: [Ish], actually. The declarer was [Ish].
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, god. Oh, that’s – oh my god. I bet he was so smug. Oh my god.
SHAN HUANG: I mean, he was OK. I mean, I wasn’t – well, one thing is I don’t really get affected much, but –
JOHN MCALLISTER: I hate – I mean, [Ish] in particular, when he gets something on me, I feel like he just – yeah, I don’t want to –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah, I know what you’re saying. I’ve also seen some people who say they get a good result, or something like this happens, right? They would make a comment to [inaudible] people or something like that. It really doesn’t do anything to me, so –
JOHN MCALLISTER: But he didn’t say anything.
SHAN HUANG: He actually didn’t say anything, yeah. He was cool about it, actually. But even if he did, it really wouldn’t affect me much, to be honest.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, that’s the tough – you kind of can’t really say anything in that situation, like –
SHAN HUANG: I mean, you’re not supposed to, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: You just got totally –
SHAN HUANG: He just claimed. That’s harmful enough. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: But you say you knew he was going to claim because even if you made this right play, he was going to claim?
SHAN HUANG: I mean, basically, right? I mean, to be honest, if I continue diamonds, which my partner’s going to rough, he could just claim because he knows I don’t have the ace of clubs. There’s no way I have the ace of clubs and no cash here, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Ah, yeah.
SHAN HUANG: So, technically, he’s going to claim anyway because there’s no more to the hand. Maybe he’s not going to claim because I guess I could have one spade and no hearts, so there might be a heart rough coming, too. But this sort of hand, it’s just like some three no’s where you just need – you’re in and you’re like, OK, so I need to play for this hand or that hand. But this card comes out, we’re going to see the moment of truth. [Laughter]
[1:00:55.4]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Oh, man. I posted on Bridge Winners – I was asking people to give us standard questions that we ask everybody, and one of the suggestions was your worst bridge hand.
SHAN HUANG: Ah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so then, there was – we weren’t sure if it was going to get too technical. But I’m so glad I asked this question, and I’m so glad that –
SHAN HUANG: Oh, I’m glad I had one recently, too. I’m glad I went to minus 1660.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I went for 1660 – I mean, I bid the hand terribly, but what did I have? I had five solid, jack and one, I think I had a diamond void? An ace, jack, sixth.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, you went for 1660 with this? That’s not good. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: It went one heart, pass on my left, pass two hearts. And I bid double. First mistake. And then, my lefty, Ace Greenberg – you know, the legendary guy from –
SHAN HUANG: Ari?
JOHN MCALLISTER: His brother. This isn’t rubber bridge. Dollar or point.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, is it online, or are you talking about –
JOHN MCALLISTER: No, this was – he’s dead now. But –
SHAN HUANG: Oh, oh, OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: It was at The Regency in New York, in person.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’m playing with Richie Schwartz, is my partner. I don’t remember who my righty was. But it goes one heart, pass two hearts. I bid double. Now, lefty bids six hearts. And so, it goes pass, pass. So, I double, thinking that this is like, Lightner.
SHAN HUANG: Ohh, I see.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, my partner leads a spade…anyway, he was 6-6 in the reds. And we were making six bids.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Nice.
[1:02:48.3]
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think the hand got written up in the New York Times bridge column. I think Zia gave the hand to the New York Times column and it got written up, but I was anonymized.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: But that’s a dollar a point. That’s 1,600 bucks.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, and also, you could win like, whatever.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes.
SHAN HUANG: It’s like a three dollar – three thousand – three case win.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah. But my worst hand, actually, was – I mean, this was probably worse, the one that I just explained to you, but I was playing online with Migry, like when we were starting to play together. And we were playing against Chris Willenken and David Berkowitz, just to practice on BBO. And it was like, three no, and I redoubled. I think she was declaring, and I remember at least 3,200.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: And she was screaming, “No! Don’t make me play this!”
If we were going to have a standard question of your suggestion, what would it be?
SHAN HUANG: I’ve never thought about it, actually. What would be interesting? Hmm. I would say maybe something like – but don’t ask me this, OK? [Laughter] No, actually, you can ask me a little later. Maybe something like if you could choose a bridge partner, who would that be kind of thing?
JOHN MCALLISTER: OK, yeah, alright.
SHAN HUANG: Who would be your favorite bridge partner kind of thing.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Are you asking me, or do you want me to ask you first?
SHAN HUANG: I can –
JOHN MCALLISTER: You want me to go first?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, sure. Go ahead.
[1:04:18.2]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, I remember wanting to hire J-Lall and Kevin Bathurst as teammates.
SHAN HUANG: OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, I didn’t have the budget for it, but I wanted to hire them for a cycle – have that as my cycle.
SHAN HUANG: The Nationals. Right, right.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Also, Adam Grossack and Zach Grossack. I have an affinity – because I know them well, but also because they’re in Double Dummy. And they’re kind of like up and coming. As teammates, but as a partner, I played some with KD, and George Mittelman was actually like, “You should get KD as your partner.” He was very impressed with him. We played a regional, and KD was at the regional. I remember George was very impressed with just listening to KD talk bridge.
I got to play with Justin before he died. I got to play a Reynolds with him as my partner.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, nice.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That was the only time we ever played together. I’ve never played with you. Somebody like Zia, he’s kind of hard on partner. I would need somebody who’s going to bring out the best in me.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And I don’t want somebody who’s going to be mean.
SHAN HUANG: Right.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Like, Meck keeps coming to mind.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Oh, I thought you were going to say Meck, he’s going to be mean.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, no, no, not as mean. I mean as somebody that I would want to play with. I remember playing with Steve Weinstein in a regional, and I’m like – there was this one hand where we got doubled in three diamonds, and he had to play his lefty for a stiff queen. It was like, one no, pass pass three diamonds, or something. And he had it. And I remember just being like, wow. This guy’s really good. I don’t know, man. That’s hard. Why don’t you – do you have an answer?
SHAN HUANG: I think I was really lucky, to be honest. When I played professional bridge, I didn’t really have to play too much with sponsors, so I actually played a lot of bridge with good players. I enjoy playing with KD. Well, first of all, a couple players I have played with, I really enjoy KD. I played with J-Lall, which I enjoyed. I play with Kevin Bathurst sometimes. And also, as I said, I play with Cecilia Rimstedt. She’s actually probably the best woman player in the world, in my opinion. I know some people probably have some different opinions. Actually, I played with another same caliber as Cecilia, like a Marion from Sweden, too. She’s very good. So, I was lucky to be able to play with a lot of these good players. Steve Weinstein too, I played with him. But Steve I’ve played with, too, which I’ve really enjoyed, yeah.
So, I would just – if you have to ask me, I would just pick someone who I think is very good, but I’ve never had a chance to play with. Even though partner screaming at me or whatever is not really going to affect me that much, I would still prefer someone who’s more calm, and we can actually…the one thing I look for the most is would we be able to talk about bridge in a constructive way. Talking about a professional partner, right? I don’t want my partner to be too sensitive and I cannot bring up a hand because he would just get too sensitive kind of thing.
Someone I think who’s very good and I’ve never had the chance to play with – someone like Danny [Spelding], [Augustine Madonna] – these I think are very good and I’ve never had a chance to play with. One of the Dutch, maybe [Shor Bring] – I mean, he’s pretty good, too. And maybe some of the Poles. I know [Zamboski] had some moments, but if I have to pick a Pole, maybe him because he seems calm and very good. Just a good player I’ve never had a chance to play with, especially from a different region because they might think about bridge a different way, so that would be pretty cool.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Dennis Bilde, he seems to enjoy himself at the table.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, yeah, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: He has a great sort of attitude.
SHAN HUANG: There was one hand I was screening with him, and it was a Vanderbilt match or whatever. And basically, I had auction where I bid like, four spades. He bids like, five hearts. I bid five spades, he bids six hearts, and I bid six spades, he bids seven hearts. Something like that, OK? [Laughter] And not exactly that crazy, but basically something like that. After the hand, I mean, he was right. He was right to take the sack. Because I showed two suits or something, so I told him next time, I’ll be 5-4-2-2. [Laughter] And I was 6-6, obviously. I was 6-6. And he said, “Next time, I’ll double you.”
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: That was kind of funny.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’ve enjoyed playing with Kevin Rosenberg. He’s very good. I mean, it’s fun playing with people that are good, you know? That are like, when you put down the dummy, and you’re like –
[1:09:06.5]
SHAN HUANG: Oh, that’s good.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Like, you’re up, buddy.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, OK, OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, definitely, yeah. Sometimes, you know this is a difficult hand. You know partner’s going to get it right kind of thing. That feels good, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Migry was fun to play with. We had a lot of laughs, and I do enjoy that. It wasn’t so easy to talk about the deals afterwards, and I probably could have been more dispassionate about talking about the –
SHAN HUANG: Was it easy to talk to her?
JOHN MCALLISTER: It wasn’t easy to talk about the deals afterwards.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, really? OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Like, hands where we had a bad result. That was difficult.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, OK. I couldn’t tell because I played against her a couple – I mean, she plays with [Birkwoods], right? So, we’ve been screening to stuff. I couldn’t tell by being her screening section. For example, Zia, like I can’t tell – this guy could be difficult. [Laughter] But [inaudible – name], actually, I couldn’t tell. Seems nice and stuff.
When we’re actually talking about bridge someone plays, especially between partners, it’s very hard. It’s really hard because it’s really hard to sometimes bring up something without partner thinking that you’re accusing them of doing something wrong kind of thing. You know what I’m saying?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SHAN HUANG: It could be sensitive. It’s not an easy thing to mention. Depends on the timing and stuff like that.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So anyway, Helgemo was sitting in her seat at the other table, and he passed three spades, and she said, “But he went down one and three spades.”
SHAN HUANG: Oh, so she went down one and four spades?
JOHN MCALLISTER: She went down one and four spades.
SHAN HUANG: Ohh. [Laughter] That’s better than Helgemo.
JOHN MCALLISTER: But I was like, “But we could’ve been in three spades.” I was like, I can’t pass. I can’t – no, come on. I think it’s normal. Like, what? No.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: It’s not normal. Oh, man.
SHAN HUANG: I mean, I’m not –
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you don’t play [golf]?
SHAN HUANG: I –
JOHN MCALLISTER: You’re not even sure you’d respond to one diamond?
SHAN HUANG: No, no, no. I’m not even sure – sorry, I was just saying I’m not even sure if we run with all the hands, are we – do we make four spades or not? So, you know, whether we are vulnerable, we only need like, 33% of a chance to making four spades, things like that. I don’t even know that, but I’m just saying the range thing was kind of interesting. Anyway, I would pass three spades, from my experience.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That is one mistake that I do make. I think that’s an area where I can improve as a player is like, giving people three hands for their bid. It’s easiest when I’m making a slam decision. Here, I’ll give you another bidding problem. Stiff jack –
SHAN HUANG: I only answer Migry’s hand. You have to give me a Migry hand.
JOHN MCALLISTER: No, I’m giving my hand.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Ohh.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Stiff jack, queen sixth, king third, ace king third. Partner opens a diamond. You bid a heart. Partner bids two hearts.
SHAN HUANG: King third is –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Not a lot between the two of you.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, so I mean, I’ll bid three spades.
[1:12:18.2]
JOHN MCALLISTER: OK, so partner bids four diamonds.
SHAN HUANG: Four diamonds. I have king third of diamonds and ace king third of clubs, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right.
SHAN HUANG: I think I pretty much need to not – I think I need like, ace king of hearts, ace queen of diamonds, and I still need to deal with my last club. So, I think I’m done. I think three spades is all I can do.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think so. I think I played my partner for the NTs here.
SHAN HUANG: Because ace –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, it’s like ace, king, jack of diamonds.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, of course.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I thought maybe he was on a finesse.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, he could have a doubleton club, but the thing is, if he has the NTs, he’s supposed to just bid a slam. I mean, he – I don’t need to bid. If he has ace king of hearts, ace queen of diamonds, you bid three spades –
JOHN MCALLISTER: But what if they’re off of clubs, though?
SHAN HUANG: No, no. Basically, you can’t, right? Let’s see he’s looking at – yeah. He’s looking at ace king of hearts and ace queen of diamonds. I mean, what’s your hand? You have a spade shortness, you have –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right, right.
SHAN HUANG: It’s just not possible.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I did not bid four hearts. [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Yeah. Well, sometimes – these slam auctions are kind of funny, too. The way I think about these things are you just give your hands a read – like sometimes, when we see a pretty girl or pretty guy, we can read them. Can we say these things? I think these things are OK, or whatever. So, we can read them, right? We can see this guy is like, a nine. Like, he’s so hot. This girl is an eight. She’s kind of hot, right? Or this one is like a one, you know, it’s whatever, it’s so bad. So, anyway, the bridge hands are like that, too. It’s the same thing. You just read their hand. You declare your hand and OK, what’s the rating? If my rating is a five, OK, maybe I [inaudible] once and I’m just, OK I’m done. If your rating’s ten –
[1:14:05.1]
JOHN MCALLISTER: But I really like my hand when my partner bids four hearts. When my partner raises hearts, I really – I think my hand is like a nine when my partner bids two hearts.
SHAN HUANG: Ahh, OK. You just like your hands. OK. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: But what do you think? My partner opened a diamond. I had king and third of diamonds.
SHAN HUANG: Well, yeah. I was more talking about from your partner’s point of view. Like over three spades, what she’s supposed to do. Like if she has ace king of hearts and ace queen of diamonds, to me, that hand is a nine. So, with a nine, she has to bid a slam herself.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right.
SHAN HUANG: Let’s say she has something like ace of spades, queen of diamonds, and ace king of hearts. Still the same 13 [inaudible] ace of diamonds. That hand, to me, is like a seven. So now, she can incorporate once, maybe even twice, but not striving to slam. If she has king queen of spades, you know, and a bunch of queens and jacks, that’s a zero. She just bids four hearts.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you want to know my partner’s actual hand?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, this is my favorite part. Come on. Actual hand. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] So, they thought that three spades might be a serious cue bid.
SHAN HUANG: Chum to three spades?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes.
SHAN HUANG: No, I guess we’re –
JOHN MCALLISTER: My partner had –
SHAN HUANG: Not from the same planet.
JOHN MCALLISTER: My partner had king and one.
SHAN HUANG: Good start, good start. [Laughter]
[1:15:36.9]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Ace, king, jack, fourth. So, we had the heart. We weren’t losing any hearts.
SHAN HUANG: So, where did the four – oh, I see.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Queen, queen, fourth, and jack third.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, a 14 maximum.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Fourteen. Fourteen. [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, that’s –
JOHN MCALLISTER: You gave me a look there. I’m like, what is that look saying?
SHAN HUANG: Oh, I was just trying to think – actually, I was trying to think how I would bid this hand over three spades. But, yeah. It’s –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you have – your hearts are so good.
SHAN HUANG: Well, you do have – I mean, you do have king of spades wasted but at the same time, say you’re not vulnerable, for instance. Like, do you open all 11’s?
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think opponents are vulnerable, and we’re – I think both – actually, I can look. Five hearts, down one.
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Both are vulnerable.
SHAN HUANG: The thing about this hand is number one is you have two spades, and your partner has one. That’s bad, right? Because you don’t – like if you have three spades and a doubleton club, you might be able to rough some clubs. Now, you have two spades. Obviously, one spade, that’s bad. You know, if you have a single clubs or your partner’s singleton, that’s usually bad. But this is like, similar.
Number two is your jack of hearts is probably useless. Your jack of clubs is questionable. Your king of spades is obviously – you know, you might take a trick if the ace is outside. So, I mean, I would rate this hand probably like a three and a half. So, not the worst, but you don’t have a lot of room between three spades and four hearts, so what you’re supposed to do over that depends a lot on your agreement. Like, what does three no mean, for example? If three no is non-serious, for instance, I might just do that so we don’t have to bypass anything. But I’m certainly not going to bid four diamonds because that puts a lot of pressure on my partner to bypass four hearts. No, it would be just too high.
[1:17:38.5]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, Weinstein on this podcast got me convinced to play three no serious because he was saying how he likes when partner just has that four club bid sometimes non-serious. It’s just what your partner needs to hear.
SHAN HUANG: Four club bid non-serious?
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, you know, like if you have a non-serious cue, you can make your non-serious cue, and it’s just what your partner wants to hear, yeah. I mean, he was saying – well, he wasn’t saying four clubs specifically, but –
SHAN HUANG: No, I know, I know. He’s more saying that sometimes, when you have a non-serious hand, your hand is more specific, that partner needs to know that one card you have. I think that’s what he’s trying to say. I’m playing non-serious three spades and non-serious three no at the moment to give away less information. There’s two directions you can go. I mean, most people do a combination, obviously. So, one direction is you can just bid your hands like, as clear as possible with your partner so you get to the right contract. You know, you tell your partner what I have, your partner tells you what he has, and you just try to get at the right contract.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SHAN HUANG: That’s what most people do. I’m more leaning towards not squealing. I hate squealing, you know?
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: Like if we play three no, you know, I would rather – if I could, I just rather open three no, you know? Guess what, you need the kind of thing, you know?
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: You need, I claim. [Laughter] I don’t like to tell you I got this weak spade, I’ve got bad hearts. What’s the point, right? Anyway, but I think I’m too much to not squealing because there’s just so many hands, because I don’t want to squeal, we play some three no with two little diamonds off to the stiff. Guess what? They know what you need. They got so many of those guys.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: So yeah, I mean, you’re just learning from – it’s all about a balancing, right? I honestly don’t think you are supposed to just always tell your opponent’s your hand in the bidding. You have to have a purpose, and you have the weigh the purpose. Is it more likely your partner needs to know you have a weak double and spade, or does opponent like – could this be a problem?
Well, in the precision system we play, we play like a diamond is nebulous, right? A two plus and partner responds to say one spade, I bid one no. In the original precision notes we had, two diamonds is artificial game force. And now this guy, their opener basically describes his five-card, whether he has a five-card minor, whether he has three clubs or four, etc. It describes right away.
Anyway, I felt like there’s so many hands where all the responder needs to know is if you have a three-card support with me or not. If you do, we’re going to play four of my major. If we don’t, we play three notrump. Let’s say my partner opened a diamond, the nebulous diamond. I bid like, a spade, one notrump. In the old precision system we had, I bid two diamonds, artificial game force. Now, partner’s going to describe his hand, whether he has three-card support. But at the same time, he’ll tell me if he has a five-card minor or not because you know in precision, if you open a diamond, you could have five clubs, right? And two diamonds.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, OK.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, anyway, so he’s going to describe right away. But then, I realized a lot of the time, the guy who bid a spade, like in my position – my partner opens a diamond, I bid a spade. My partner rebids a notrump. All I need to know is if my partner has three spades or not. If he does, we’re going to play four spades. If he doesn’t we play three no. So, two diamonds is just unnecessarily squealing my partner’s hand. If we end up playing three no, will my partner show like, five clubs to them, and no three spades. Guess what? I mean, everyone knows his shape.
Anyway, so that’s why I invented some little creep there. Anyway, we’ll use like a two clubs relay to two diamonds and jump to three spades to show this kind of hand. So, I was just –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Two clubs, two diamonds. So, wait. Your partner bid one no, now you bid two clubs. He’s forced to bid two diamonds?
SHAN HUANG: Correct, and I jump to three spades to show that three spades, four spades with three spades. Otherwise, bid three no. Anyway, so I felt this way, there’s not squeal, right? Like we’re just going to play four spades or three no.
Anyway, so the reason I brought it up was the squealing thing and also, it’s funny because J-Lall plays precision with Kevin Bathurst, right? I’ve been thinking about this the whole time, and I had conversations with Kevin Dwyer and Kevin Bathurst. And then, there was like one time we were just drinking in his room, I think. And J-Lall was like, “Yeah, I hate this two diamond thing. Why do we have to squeal? Like, we need something to fix this.” I’m like, boom! That’s exactly what I was talking about. Let’s fix it up. This makes no sense. Like why are we squealing here?
[1:22:26.3]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Ahh. Was that called the Huang Shan? The Huang Shan three spades?
SHAN HUANG: [Laughter] Yeah, I don’t know. One of the few things. I mean, I’m not – I mean, compared to a lot of other people, I’m not great with systems, but I did come up with some little things, though, which is kind of cool. Kind of cool.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You and KD opened two diamonds with a singleton? Or void?
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, yeah. That part, I really didn’t do any modification. It’s just whatever was there was good enough, basically. And also, you have to just balance with your memory, right? Basically, you should not have an agreement where it just comes up less than, like, once a year, you know. These kind of things, you just forget about. It’s really not worth it. And the times you forget, it’s a disaster, you know. Three-0 fit. We might as well just not have the agreement, and we guess. We guess right a lot of times, anyway. More right than wrong.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What’s your best result?
SHAN HUANG: Result?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, like in an event.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, in an event. Well, I mean, unfortunately I haven’t won many things. But we actually won the GNT in the last national. The GNT Online National. We represented Florida, and we won that. So, that was nice. Obviously, Florida usually has the best team. At the beginning, we weren’t great but later, we played pretty well, I think. So, I was happy how we played, in general.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, if you got 10,000 Masterpoints right now, you’re saying you wouldn’t be a Grand Lifemaster?
SHAN HUANG: I have been a Grand Lifemaster for a while because I was lucky that I won a CNTC – the Canadian trials. That one counted as a national title, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Gotcha. Who has more Masterpoints – you, or KD?
SHAN HUANG: I can, yeah – always KD because he just plays so many regionals. Whenever I play a regional, he’s going to be there, anyway. And his regional is always going to be equal or more than me, so I just have no chance. There was actually one month I had more Masterpoints. Like, [inaudible], there was only one month I was leading, and I had more Masterpoints than him. I don’t even remember how. Maybe I did well in some pair games in a previous national, probably. So, I passed him for one month. I think it was like, September in 2019, something like that. Yeah. I took a photo of it. Like, you know –
[1:25:03.0]
JOHN MCALLISTER: The only time you can remember beating him in the –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, the only time I’m beating the [inaudible] in that year. It was like, September 2019, something like that.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Who are you playing Austin with?
SHAN HUANG: Joyce, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you’re playing the Soloway and the Risinger?
SHAN HUANG: That’s a good question. We played Soloway before COVID. Our team – Joyce didn’t really like the length of the tournament that much because it was – because usually, we just play the Spingold, right? It’s like a seven-day tournament. Or a Spingold Vanderbilt, plus the swiss. But now, if we start on Friday, it’s three extra days. So, I think last time, Joyce was a bit running out of steam in the end, so she was – we were considering just, you know, playing – starting on Sunday or something instead of on Friday. So, we might skip Soloway, but I’m not too sure. I think we still haven’t decided.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You think Austin’s going to happen in person?
SHAN HUANG: I mean, I really don’t know. I certainly hope so, but I mean, look, since last March – last March I heard, OK, the tournaments are probably coming back in June. That’s what I heard. And then, they say tournaments are coming back in September. OK, great.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SHAN HUANG: And then OK, all the tournaments this year are canceled. OK, OK. And then, this year finally they’re saying, oh the first tournament is PGA, blah blah. It’s all set and go, and the rooms – I booked my room, booked my flight. So, OK, we’re good to go. And boom, it got canceled. So, I really don’t know.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think it’s unlikely at this point, actually.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, really? You think it’s actually –
JOHN MCALLISTER: I think it’s unlikely, yeah. This shit’s just getting canceled. Like, they went back – I saw they went back to mask mandates in places, and –
SHAN HUANG: I haven’t actually tracked the COVID cases. Is it still rising, or –
[1:27:04.7]
JOHN MCALLISTER: I don’t – I try not to track it too, honestly. I feel – sometimes, Twitter gets the best of me. My Google News.
SHAN HUANG: Are you playing the trials this year?
JOHN MCALLISTER: No, I’m playing the mixed trials.
SHAN HUANG: Because that one, we’re supposed to play in person in the knockout stage, right?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Mixed?
SHAN HUANG: No, the open trials.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, yeah, I think all the trials are – the round robin is online. The head’s in person.
SHAN HUANG: You think the head-to-head part is going to happen? Because that’s actually earlier than the –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, that’s true. I don’t know. I haven’t really thought about it.
SHAN HUANG: I mean, we have to see. I guess that part is easier, probably, because there’s just way fewer people. I mean, Austin, we’re talking about thousands of people, right? Like that one is maybe like, what, like 200 or something? You know. We’ll see each other in person soon.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you know how many seeding points you have?
SHAN HUANG: It wasn’t much. It was like, 17, maybe 15? Not much. Just haven’t won anything, really. That kind of sucks. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, thank you very much. It’s good to catch up. I’ve enjoyed texting with you, playing those Bridgebase – have you played any more of those Bridgebase –
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, you hooked me up. I played actually 30 – I played 30 of them.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, really?
SHAN HUANG: I played 30 of them after I talked to you, and I stopped playing. I was kind of busy in the last couple days.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, we’re talking about the world class declarer problems in Bridgemaster. Have you been able to solve all of them?
[1:28:39.6]
SHAN HUANG: Most of them, yeah. There was one hand, it just – I had to start over a couple times because I don’t know if you remember the hand. It was like – because the bidding was weird. It’s like someone opened a notrump, I overcall two hearts, and it goes double on my left, which was obviously penalty, so I didn’t know that. And then it goes, my partner somehow bids two spades on my right. He doubled that, which was penalty. And then, I bid three diamonds. He goes pass, pass, double. And that was penalty. Apparently, this guy has like, jack third of diamonds and just ripped me. So anyway, apparently, I was supposed to play the diamonds 3-3-2, and the layout to be that to make it. So, I didn’t get that one right. Anyway, it’s just a different bidding, so I was a little confused.
JOHN MCALLISTER: But you do with more rigor than I do because I don’t look at the solutions, but I’m willing to fail multiple – as many times as I can.
SHAN HUANG: Oh, I see.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah. But you –
SHAN HUANG: No, I didn’t do it that way. I usually just think about what’s going on and then start doing it. Sometimes – it’s just like I play bridge. Sometimes, I can be slow. It takes me ten minutes to touch a card kind of thing. [Laughter]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Alright, man. Great to see you.
SHAN HUANG: That was fun.
JOHN MCALLISTER: We’ll be posting this in the next – I don’t know.
SHAN HUANG: Yeah, you know, edit whatever needs to be edited. [Laughter] You said some – you swear a couple of times. I don’t know if it could be public or not.
JOHN MCALLISTER: It was a pleasure, and I’ll let you know when we’re publishing it. I’ll send you the episode and transcript and stuff like that.
SHAN HUANG: OK, sounds good. Thanks.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Alright, man.
SHAN HUANG: Take care, man.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Later.