EPISODE 43: Susan Bricken
We are informally designating Susan Bricken as the Chief Enthusiasm Officer for the ACBL Educational Foundation’s new program, BridgeWhiz. We hope she’ll be an inspiration to all who want young people to learn the game. After finishing this episode, make sure to tell three people about BridgeWhiz, and feel free to copy me at john@thesettingtrick.com! To date 1,250+ students have signed up.
Link to Audio Only Version of Episode
Episode Highlights:
0:50- BridgeWhiz details
6:48- The bridge version of Queen’s Gambit
13:45- Immediately jumping into the deep end
20:20- Learning bridge from TST Guest 41 Robert Todd
23:08- Never play bridge with your spouse??
25:00- Doubling the size of her local bridge club
31:10- The interviewee becomes the interviewer
32:50- The history of Double Dummy
45:25- Saving Lives Susan
50:10- Swimming Susan
Transcript:
JOHN MCALLISTER: I have Susan Bricken, the Chief Enthusiasm Officer for BridgeWhiz. We met over the phone. Susan called me. I sent an email out to all the unit presidents and education liaisons in District 6, and I got one phone call from this woman right here, Susan Bricken. Susan, welcome to The Setting Trick Podcast.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Thank you very much, John, and thank you for having me.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, Susan, I’m excited to have you, and thank you for being on. The reason that I wanted to talk to you is because I’m really impressed, and you get me taking action on BridgeWhiz, which is this program by the ACBL Education Foundation that’s starting in October. And I love your enthusiasm for the project, but the last time we emailed, you had spoken to a man at a church, and your enthusiasm had slowed a little bit. Let’s talk about that.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, just a tad. It was my very first “no,” and he rapidly informed me that cards were the work of the devil, and that I was a really bad person for even suggesting that children under his care would take up a card game. And unfortunately, he has my number, and I got a call the next day suggesting that I stop in this church.
However, today, when I had flyers made about BridgeWhiz, the person making the flyers called me and asked me about the program and was excited about it. Now, how cool is that? And he has grandchildren that he thinks might be interested in it. So, that made up for it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, tell me. You had flyers made. You went to a local print shop or something?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I did. We wanted to have flyers right away because we have people that are interested, and I’m asking people to go out and contact people that they know that have children of the appropriate age. I mean, this is an incredible program. It’s free, and it’s one day a week for children right now.
We went out to dinner at an outdoor restaurant last night, and there was a family next to me. Everybody was on their telephone. Everybody. The kids. The parents. And there was a multigenerational family next to me on the other side, and their kids were on the telephones. So, this is an opportunity for children to play games, teach their parents, and go back to the days where many people learned how to play bridge around the kitchen table.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, one of the sayings that I like to use, and I think this applies really well to BridgeWhiz, is “screens to go beyond screens.”
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes. Ah, very good. Very nice. I’ll adopt that. I like that a lot.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: We’re having a lot of interest in the program. We’re talking to AARP. I’ve got some homeschooling people that are very interested in the program. The Unitarian Church is considering it, and people are taking the flyers. So, hopefully, we’ll get children interested.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, I spoke to Kristen Frederick, who is the Executive Director of the Education Foundation today, and she told me that they had 144 kids signed up already.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And that’s without Peachjar. This is just word of mouth.
SUSAN BRICKEN: At this time, when kids are staying home, and there are a lot of children that aren’t being able to participate in a lot of their usual activities because of the virus, which is only increasing, this program – a thousand children, we should have to triple it at least, I think.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That would be a great problem to have.
SUSAN BRICKEN: That would be wonderful.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you speak to the people at the restaurant about the program, or did you just take that in?
SUSAN BRICKEN: What do you think, John?
JOHN MCALLISTER: You talked to them?
SUSAN BRICKEN: [Laughter] What do you think, John?
JOHN MCALLISTER: You talked to them?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Of course. The children were the appropriate age. Yes, absolutely. And they’re very involved in sports, these children. But I explained to them, as a swimmer, the reason I took up bridge six years ago was I didn’t want to be really fit and then not have anything to say to people. I mean, like, duh. So, we talked about how this is sort of a nice balance between sports and – bridge is now being called a mind sport. And it’s a very competitive – it does the same thing. It only gives you the mental exercise. It’s taking your brain to the gym kind of thing. They were intrigued.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How did you go about – were these strangers to you?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so, you just approached the table?
SUSAN BRICKEN: John, I’m a New Yorker. We talk to everybody, yes. That’s just – you know how to talk to people, yes. And it’s a good thing, and I think it’s a great gift to at least let people know about it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Because these are people that probably never would have heard about the program. So, in my mind, I’m doing them a great service. Ooh, and I have – this is really cool. I do work with abused kids, and this is a foster care agency, and they have a lot of children in foster care at the appropriate age. They’re very interested in this. They’re always looking for things for the foster kids to do to keep them busy.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Wow.
SUSAN BRICKEN: So, I’m going there tomorrow to give them flyers.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That can be like a Queen’s Gambit situation.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Mm-hmm.
JOHN MCALLISTER: She was a foster kid.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, she was. Yes, I hadn’t thought of – I didn’t make that connection, but that’s true.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do the foster kids have access to the internet?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, yes. It’s usually monitored, but yes they do. Most of them are in foster homes, pretty much everybody. And many of the kids are having to go to school over the internet, or at least did so last year.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right. So, tell me about your bridge journey. I see here that you were sixth in the 2019 50-100 Masterpoint race.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Well, I’m not a good bridge player at all. My husband and I took it up, as I say – after swimming, I wanted to do something that we could do together, and it would be sort of interesting for our minds, and fell in love with the game. I love the game. And it was amazing what it did even just for our relationship and our ability to communicate, and it laid bare communication styles. It allowed us to improve on how we dealt with one another. I’ve met fascinating people through the bridge community. We started it up, an easy bridge program for people to learn bridge. And they’re still playing, and they’re still friends. I love these people. And we’ve all maintained connections and know each other very well. It’s been terrific. I just wish I were a better player. I mean, I work at it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How did you choose bridge?
[0:07:01.2]
SUSAN BRICKEN: It just – simply because of its reputation. I knew people that played bridge. I talked to people that played bridge, and it seemed that it had all the things that I was looking for – to prevent cognitive decline, the ability to work on my communication skills, to work on my mental skills. It seemed perfect – and social skills.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You strike me as someone who has a – one way of describing it is a growth mindset, or a lifelong learner.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, yes. Yes, yes. In fact, I’m doing Spanish in the last year and a half. Every day, I get to talk to somebody in a Spanish-speaking country, like pennies. And I’ve learned about life in Venezuela and Costa Rica. I mean, it’s fascinating. And I’ve learned more than the language – I’ve learned customs. I mean, running through the streets with a suitcase at midnight on January 1 for good luck. I mean, just fascinating things. Really interesting. So, that’s opened my mind and my heart tremendously, just trying to learn the language with my awful gringa accent. It’s been fun.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How much English do you speak on a call like that?
SUSAN BRICKEN: None. None, absolutely none.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And what’s your primary means of learning Spanish?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Pretty much conversation. I started out incorrectly the first couple of months in my books, learning grammar, which is inappropriate. And I could say, “The cat’s on the table. The man has a hat,” but I couldn’t understand anybody. So, I stopped and did – I’m marinating my brain in listening to conversation, just listening. And now, speaking, and forcing my – it gives me great shame. I mean, it’s horrible to start speaking. I sound like a dyslexic, horrible two-year-old child. But gradually, I’ve gotten better, and it’s fun, and they’re wonderful. They’re so encouraging and helpful. It’s great.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And what is the application that you’re doing this through?
SUSAN BRICKEN: There’s Verbling, italki, and Baseline. For like, $140 a month, you can spend 24 hours a day doing Spanish by Zoom. It’s incredible. It is. And the people that I talk to in Venezuela – one call a day for them keeps them able to buy food and survive because their country’s in such poor shape now. So, it’s really important for them.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Mm. Are you speaking to the same people?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I have a core of people that I speak to that are the same. And then, I speak to other people in other countries just because it’s interesting. And there’s different accents, different usages. They speak differently in Spain than they do in Costa Rica. It’s fun.
[00:09:55.0]
JOHN MCALLISTER: What about Duolingo? I’ve got some friends that I’ve seen on Instagram – it’s a couple, and they’re competitive about their Duolingo stuff. Have you tried that?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, I started with that, but you outgrow that quickly. And again, for me, the language is to be able to communicate and to understand and to learn about people’s live in different countries. And you don’t do that through Duolingo. I mean, do you know – John, here’s what I learned today. This is really interesting. There’s a river in Columbia, South America in which there are – I don’t know, maybe 90, now, hippopotamuses, or hippopotami, I guess. Pablo Escobar had a zoo and when he died, they escaped. And they are replicating to the extent the government doesn’t know what to do.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Wow.
SUSAN BRICKEN: And they don’t want to kill them. And they’re dangerous. I mean, they’re endangering the population. They’re not native. They’re eating everything. And they’re just incredible. And there are pictures on the internet of just all these animals – huge, huge animals. I mean, how interesting is that? Come on, John. That’s interesting.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes, it is interesting. Do you have a time when you – are you doing this tomorrow?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: At what time?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I believe tomorrow, I do it at noon, from noon to one. I talk to my friend, Alex. I have an opera singer in Ecuador. I mean, they’re interesting people.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you talk to them about bridge?
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, not yet. There’s one man, we’ve talked about bridge a little bit, but he didn’t know what it was. Had no idea. I don’t think bridge is international yet. Yet.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah. Right, right. So, six years ago, you and your husband set out to learn bridge.
SUSAN BRICKEN: We did.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And were you living in Christiansburg at that time?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, we retired and came down here. And they had a pool, and I was swimming a lot. And then, we met people that play bridge, and then we met the duplicate club, and that hooked us. So, we started going there three times a week.
[0:12:18.7]
JOHN MCALLISTER: And you went there cold turkey, like your first bridge was played at the duplicate club?
SUSAN BRICKEN: We played a couple of times with a man who was a teacher locally, and he told us never to go near a duplicate club – that people were awful, it would be terrible. But he was having some issues, and somebody from – we met somebody from the duplicate club, and they said, “Come.” So, we did. And they started a game for us. We were supposed to play in a novice game until we got better, but there weren’t enough of us, so they just threw us into what we call “the big room.” And there we were.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you like to do – you like to learn things experientially, I think.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, very much so.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You’re not afraid of failing. I get the sense.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Nope, no point in compounding ignorance with temerity, I say.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What does temerity mean?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Fearfulness.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Mm. So, you didn’t – you had some lessons with this individual who said, “Nope, no duplicate club.”
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yup, but what he told us was incorrect. We bought books and realized very quickly that he didn’t know what he was talking about. So, when we went to the duplicate club, they were going to give us lessons. And that fell apart. There just weren’t enough people to sustain the lessons, or a separate game of novice players. So, they threw us in, and I’m kind of glad they did because we had to learn quickly – at least enough to be able to survive.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How much do you think you knew when you showed up for the first time?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Probably aces were four points, and kings were three, and not much more than that. I mean, we had some sense of the game, but not much.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Did you know that opening one heart or one spade showed five of them, or –
SUSAN BRICKEN: We learned that the first day we went, and it was really – I can remember sitting fascinated as somebody explained to me you had to make a plan before you started to play a hand. I said, “What do you mean, a plan? It’s going to take me 20 hours to do what you’re doing.” I mean, I was just fascinated. You know, the whole process was really, really interesting. And I can remember my husband, you know the player, standing up horrified, he said, “He led away from an ace!” You know? Well, yeah, of course he did. He didn’t know any better.
[0:14:48.9]
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, so, it was hard for the good players because I’m sure we ruined their game. But we had a wonderful time, and that led to the teaching bridge to novice players – not that I was a good player, but I didn’t need to be because I was just teaching them what I remembered I had needed to learn. It was fun.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And did your husband do that teaching with you? Or –
SUSAN BRICKEN: Some, yes. A little bit. My husband was a tax lawyer. There. Tax lawyers are not the most personable people in the whole world. In fact, I can remember my mother saying the worst dinner party she ever went to, she was seated between a first-time marathoner and a tax lawyer. So, they’re not given to pleasant conversation, usually. Small talk.
JOHN MCALLISTER: A first-time marathoner? Why, because that’s all they were talking about?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Of course. Of course.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, have you run? Are you a runner?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, I’ve actually gone running each of the last three days, and I’m planning on going for a run after our conversation tonight because I told myself I would.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, we were runners, too, until we moved down here.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How did you end up in Christiansburg?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Finger on a map. Husband retired from the Justice Department, and at that time, I had a son in Northern Virginia, and one in Cary, North Carolina. And this was sort of halfway. And we figured we didn’t have any place to go, and there were – there’s two universities here, so how bad could it be? So, we moved here. Husband came down, found a house, and here we are.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Is University of Virginia Wise down there? Is that the other university?
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, Radford University –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, Radford.
[0:16:39.2]
SUSAN BRICKEN: And Tech.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And Virginia Tech. Got it. What else can you tell me about your bridge journey? I see your husband has 20 more Masterpoints than you do.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, and is a better player than I. We have not – he had hand surgery. In fact, he’s having his second hand have surgery, undergo surgery this week with osteoarthritis in his thumbs, which made holding cards very difficult and painful. And once we get that over, we started back in bridge. We’re doing some Zoom lessons and starting to play again because we’ve missed it, and he’s maintained his studying and learning all along. So, it’ll be fun. We’ll go back.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Go back – you mean to live bridge, or –
SUSAN BRICKEN: Well, hopefully if the Delta variation quits raising its ugly head in this area, because we were just starting to have live bridge again.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, what would be a triumph of yours at the bridge table, like a recent triumph from maybe online play?
SUSAN BRICKEN: For us, for me, when I was playing bridge in person, my last triumph was recognizing and being able to bid appropriately Puppet Stayman. I truly lived on that for a couple of days. You know, it was wonderful. It was so satisfactory to learn this stuff and have it work, and have it turn out the right way. So, that’s good. We realized that we spent far too much time – and I’m sure many people do – with the bidding. And half the game is defense, so we’re working now on defense and signaling. And that’s really cool stuff, so I like that a lot, too.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What is your primary vehicle for learning defense, for example?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Books. I’ve got lots of books. I mean, that’s usually – I buy books on whatever I’m interested in. So, we have a lot of defense books, and Robert Todd has a most amazing course of bridge materials for play, for defense, and for bidding. He has a complete course, which I think is brilliant, and he explains his ability to explain things conceptually. The concepts behind things has made all the difference. I think his materials are just wonderful, and I’ve been to two of his seminars, also. In fact, I remember Robert Todd playing with two teenage girls who were sent to this seminar by their parents. They were not happy to be there. And he played with them, and by the time the game was over, they were loving it. It was wonderful to watch him engage them. So, that was fun.
But I do that and then, we have a local teacher who has begun teaching over Zoom, and she’s starting to do some defense. But mostly, the books. And then, there are seminars, of course, and workshops.
[0:19:50.3]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, the Robert Todd stuff is online, though, that you’re getting that stuff online.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Online? I’ve got all his books.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Oh, he’s got –
SUSAN BRICKEN: He’s got – oh yeah, pamphlets. I mean, they’re not book-books. A ton of stuff.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So originally, I told you that you were going to be on his episode. And actually, we published his episode, I think maybe even today – actually, I don’t know if we’ve published it or not yet. So, it might be that you just have your own episode.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, that’s fine. I don’t care.
JOHN MCALLISTER: OK. Did you tell your husband that you’re – go ahead.
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, he had to make sure that all this – in fact, he settled this up and then, I had a Zoom call in Spanish, and we couldn’t hear each other because he plugged in the wrong – you know. So now, it’s fine.
JOHN MCALLISTER: How would you characterize your conversation or your communication styles from what you’ve learned about bridge?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I would say we are a lot more tolerant, and a lot more patient, and a lot more focused on actually trying to figure out what the other person is trying to communicate. And that spills over, I mean outside of bridge, I think. I mean, I think the things that we’ve learned in bridge are skills that you could apply outside of bridge. I mean, obviously.
JOHN MCALLISTER: There’s a saying, and it’s popular in bridge circles, not to play with your spouse.
SUSAN BRICKEN: I know.
JOHN MCALLISTER: It sounds like you’re – not only are you flying in the face of that, but you’re actually – your relationship is improving because you’re playing bridge together.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, absolutely. And I’ve seen couples – I mean, everybody cringes with the rolling of the eyes, or the barbed comments or the discussions. That’s just – we weren’t going to do that. And if our relationship couldn’t withstand playing bridge, I mean, I would have a problem with that. So, no. We’ve certainly had our driving home in silence times. [Laughter] And pointing out, you know, just gently, errors. I mean, I can remember driving to our very first tournament, which was a local tournament that we held at our club, and my husband Chuckie said to me on the way, “1430. You’re fine with it?” “Not a problem. I’ve got 1430. I know it all.” He said, “You’re sure? Not a problem?” First hand, I bid it wrong. It was awful. It was awful. And of course, there’s the director standing there with his hand on my shoulder as I misbid it. I felt awful. But you know, we survived that, and many things since. So, it’s fine.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What did he say?
SUSAN BRICKEN: The director or my husband?
JOHN MCALLISTER: No, your husband.
SUSAN BRICKEN: It was funny. I mean, it was so funny because I had just assured him, absolutely I knew. 1430, not a problem.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: So, he actually reacted with humor at that point. Not the director, who squeezed my shoulder and said, “Susan!” He was horrified, but my husband was fine.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you want to tell us about the easy bridge classes that you did that helped double the size of the Blacksburg Bridge Club?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, I think that was wonderful, and it was a lot of fun because we advertised it like crazy. The best way we got people was through newspaper articles, a television thing we had done, and then flyers and word of mouth. And we had – when it started, we had almost 33 people show up. Of those 33 people, four left right away because they would not play duplicate style. Absolutely not, weren’t going to do it. Wouldn’t even do it to learn.
So, they left, and everybody else – you know, we lost a couple of people for a variety of reasons, but I think it was because I knew I was not a really good top-notch bridge player, so I could explain it at the level that I could understand it. And there were times when I would explain something and then have to re-explain it because I’d said it wrong. So, everybody was relaxed, and I think everybody could understand what I was saying, or my husband was saying, or some of the other people that helped. And we talked at a very basic level because I didn’t have any choice. I mean, I couldn’t make it more complex.
We had a class recently with – for new people. And the person teaching it was one of our better players who started off explaining to people that barely knew that there were 52 cards in the deck, fast arrival is what you need to know, people. Fast arrival. And I just thought, wow. And he wanted so badly to show them what he knew.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right, yeah.
SUSAN BRICKEN: And excited, but right over the top of their head. And we involved people. We had class members help teach each other, so they had assignments and they came in. We had a lot of social time. We laughed. We talked a lot. And then gradually, we had people from the club itself – the duplicate club – come in bit by bit and teach something on, you know, how to handle the boards at the table. They didn’t even have to teach a bridge thing, but it was just something so that people got to know one another. So, when my group went into the big room, and that’s what we call the big room, the little room. And in the big room, they would be comfortable, and at least they would know one another.
So, it worked out really nicely. It was fun. We start out with the easy bridge – there’s an easy bridge program, but we sort of morphed and sort of did our own thing after that. And I worked really hard because of Robert Todd, because I’d found his stuff, to try to teach the concepts so that they understood what they were doing. And it sure helped me.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you play on Bridgebase?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I just started playing again, yes. But we’ve got a relaxed game going now. But I have a friend that’s coming back, and she wants to play online. So, while my husband’s recuperating from his surgery, I will play online, and then speak Spanish.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you haven’t played any of the ACBL games in Bridgebase?
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, mm-mm. No, no. But I will.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Because I’m thinking I would like to play with you.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, John. I’m sure you’re a really good player.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, a lot of people think that. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, yes, I’m sure they do.
JOHN MCALLISTER: But they tend – but the punchline is that they tend to be not bridge players. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: [Laughter] Oh.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, like today, I was playing golf, for example, with the new director of golf at our country club here in Charlottesville, and somebody referred to me as like, a world-class bridge player. And I was like –
SUSAN BRICKEN: [Gasp] World-class bridge player? You need a t-shirt!
JOHN MCALLISTER: It was a non-bridge player. I mean, in the eyes of the non-bridge-playing world, I’ve played in world championships, so maybe that –
[0:27:19.3]
SUSAN BRICKEN: John, you are a world-class bridge player. You are!
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes, Susan, but – I mean, that’s – no. No, I mean – in the eyes of world-class bridge players, I would be interested, you know? That would be an interesting thing to uncover, to hear what – my goal is to – I want to win the Bermuda Bowl.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: But I need to get either a lot better at bridge, or a lot wealthier. One of the two. Or a combination of both.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, or both, yes. That would be – yeah. How many points –
JOHN MCALLISTER: Because at the highest level, wealth is huge in terms of winning a world championship – at least in the United States where we have sponsors, and you can have a six-person team. So, I mean, I’m capable. I’ve finished tenth in an open world championship, the Transnational Teams, in 2017.
SUSAN BRICKEN: John!
JOHN MCALLISTER: I had a very good partner and teammates, and it was a lot of fun. We were – there were 120 teams, and the top eight made knockout head-to-head matches. And it was three days of qualifying, five rounds per day. The penultimate round, we were at Table – I think we were at Table 1. Table 1 or Table 2. You’re literally in the top four. And we lost that round, and then we just missed. I cried. I cried.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I called my mom. I was in – it was in France. I called my mom. I called my ex-girlfriend, who did not answer. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: [Laughter] Yeah, that was a mistake, John. Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, she’s got French ancestry, so her mother’s French, so I was sort of – I mean, I was thinking of her. But, yeah.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow. That’s very impressive. When did you learn to play? Did you start playing as a small child?
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, we used to play – I still play hearts with my parents after dinner. We love to play hearts. We play three-person hearts. We take out the two of diamonds, and each of us have 17 cards. My stepdad always acts like he forgets what the rules are. [Laughter]
[0:29:36.3]
So, when I was 18, my mother’s father died. My grandfather on my mom’s side. And my mom’s little sister was staying with us, and after dinner, the four of us – my parents and Aunt Kathleen – sat down to play hearts. And I was explaining the house rules for hearts, and Kathleen goes – literally, this is what she said: “This is stupid. We should be playing bridge.”
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so, I was sort of like, “Well, I don’t know. I kind of like hearts.” But she went out, and I just loved it. And so, instead of playing hearts after dinner, we would play bridge after dinner. And for like the first, probably, six years of playing bridge, I only knew to do it with my parents. It didn’t occur to me – I lived in New York City, two blocks from the biggest bridge club in the country, Honors. And it didn’t even occur to me to –
SUSAN BRICKEN: Go there.
JOHN MCALLISTER: To go there, to find bridge. And that’s one of the reasons why the movie, or BridgeWhiz – I just think people – you need – it just doesn’t – there’s people who’d love bridge, but they might never get introduced to it.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so – have you seen Double Dummy, by the way?
SUSAN BRICKEN: No. But I’ve written it down. I would like to see it. That’s your show. I just learned about that. You mentioned Double Dummy, and I wrote it down, and then somebody else mentioned it. I didn’t know what it was.
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, you heard me say it – not during this conversation.
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, no. Prior to this. But it was just as an aside. And I wrote it down to figure out what it was.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Do you know what double dummy means?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Double dummy, yes. It’s when you can see your hand and your dummy both, so you know how to play the hand in the best possible way. Yes, or no?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, I mean, you can see all four hands, basically.
SUSAN BRICKEN: OK.
[0:31:47.7]
JOHN MCALLISTER: It comes from whist. So, people used to play two-person whist, and they would play with two dummies. So, then you can see your 13 cards, plus the 26 of the combined dummies. And then, you can just infer what the other person’s cards are because those are the missing cards.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That’s where the term comes from. And then, double dummy itself was like, a popular form of the game, I guess. I don’t really know this part as much, but I think people would play double dummy to see if they can prove that they can make “x” contract on the actual lie of the cards. So, I don’t know how people actually practice it, but that’s where the term came from.
SUSAN BRICKEN: OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: We’ve been making this movie for nine years, and not a video – don’t call it a video.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, don’t? A movie.
JOHN MCALLISTER: If you call it a video – we’re fast friends, but if you call it a video –
SUSAN BRICKEN: No. No siento. No, no.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That’s going to be –
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, no mas. OK. No, this movie.
JOHN MCALLISTER: If you want to disparage me, be like, “Oh my gosh, I saw your video.”
SUSAN BRICKEN: Your little video.
JOHN MCALLISTER: That would be a great way to disparage me.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Ew, no.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Who’s “we,” and how did you make this? What made you – and what is it about?
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, it’s about a team of Americans playing in the Junior World Championships of Bridge. And I quit my job – I used to work for a hedge fund. And in 2012 –
[0:33:16.3]
SUSAN BRICKEN: In the city?
JOHN MCALLISTER: In Charlottesville, here. Here in Charlottesville.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, I thought the city.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And I quit my job, and on my last day of work, I left to go to Memphis for my first NABC. And at the Memphis tournament, there was a brainstorming session about how do we get more young people interested in learning bridge. And so, I just left my job. I was doing marketing, and I was like – this could be something that I could do.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And so, I came home, and I had dinner with two friends who were filmmakers. And they said – one of them said, “We think you’re the only person we know that plays bridge.” And I said, “That’s funny, because I went to this brainstorming session, and there’s a call in the bridge world to introduce the game to more young people.” And I said, “The average age of bridge league members, at that time, was 67 years old.”
SUSAN BRICKEN: Ooh.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And they claimed it was going up by two years every year. And so, I said this, and my friend Jeremy Goldstein said, “That sounds like a documentary movie.” And that was sort of the – that was the fuse. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, John!
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah.
SUSAN BRICKEN: You’d never done anything like that before?
JOHN MCALLISTER: No. No, my sister produced a couple of movies, my middle sister. I have three sisters. She produced a couple of movies that were like – one of them with the other guy, Derek Sieg, my childhood best friend. So, they produced a movie together called Swedish Auto. And then, my sister produced a movie – it was actually pretty – Michael Shannon was in it, and – can’t remember the name. It was sort of a psychological thriller. But anyway, maybe it’ll come to me.
SUSAN BRICKEN: My husband’s father was a movie – film producer. He did The Train with Burt Lancaster. That’s interesting. About the theft of Jewish art in France, and they’re trying to get it back and stop the train taking it back to Germany. It was an interesting movie, and Chuck’s father produced it in France. They made it in France.
[0:35:38.2]
JOHN MCALLISTER: Was it successful?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, yes. Very, very. Yeah, he grew up in Hollywood.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Your husband did?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes. In fact, his father hired Ronald Reagan to host the [inaudible].
JOHN MCALLISTER: Wow.
SUSAN BRICKEN: It’s interesting. So, go on. I want to hear more about the Double Dummy. So, how did you start? Where did you – what did you do?
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, there was a young man named Adam Kaplan who I knew about through a website called Bridge Winners. And he was 16 years old, and I met him at the tournament. And he was actually rooming with my partner for the first event I played in – a guy named Greg Humphries. And Greg was my age, so he was 36, and Adam was 16, and it was this hilarious dichotomy of the 16-year-old kid making fun of this 36-year-old guy for how he was playing and thinking about bridge. And so, he made an impression on me. I was already familiar with Adam through Bridge Winners, as I said, and so he just naturally came to mind. Because I knew there were Junior World Championships that year, and so I thought well, we’ll make a competition-style documentary film about – we’ll feature Adam in it. And so, that was my own doing.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow. Nine years.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, and we released a version of it in 2017 that was 86 minutes. It was in the Virginia Film Festival. And it just didn’t really have the impact that I wanted to. It was a little meandering and long, and only a year and a half ago did I really kind of come to terms with that. So, we started making a shorter version, initially for screening with AARP, the Virginia State Office of AARP. So now, we have this 50-minute version that we’re going to be premiering next month with the ACBL, and then the ACBL Education Foundation. We’re going to do a fundraiser for the Ed Foundation. Then eventually, it’ll be on public television. And hopefully, it’ll be – I think it showcases bridge and the competitive aspect of it and how intense it is. And I think it’ll change people’s minds about –
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow. I’m going to – and there’s no place I can – is there any place I can see it now?
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, I could send you a copy of the nearly-finished version.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, I’d love to see that.
JOHN MCALLISTER: OK, I’ll send it to you. Do you actually ever work for pay?
[0:38:18.8]
SUSAN BRICKEN: No. Heck, no.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You’re just a volunteer?
SUSAN BRICKEN: I’m a volunteer.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Because I think you could potentially be a pretty good employee in terms of the film. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: I’d do anything I could to help you and the bridge thing. But no, I don’t need the pay. No, I’m too old for that. We’re fine.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I mean, I just had the thought while I was sitting here telling you about it. I was like, yeah, Susan could be a really good salesperson for our film. [Laughter]
SUSAN BRICKEN: For the film, absolutely. It would be very interesting.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’ll tell you, the thing about making a film is it sounds pretty good. You could definitely trade on, well, I’m making a documentary movie.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, you could dine out on it. You could dine out on it, yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: You could impress people with that. But man, the reality of it is – I mean, it’s great, you know? It’s an exciting thing to do. I’m very fortunate to be in a position that I can make this film, that I’ve spent as much time with it as I have. I was at a golf tournament with some friends in April, and this guy I went to college with goes, “How’s the film?” And I was like – I wasn’t mad at him, but I was mad that the film was still not finished nine years later. It was like, man, I need to get this thing finished, out the door.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Done, yes.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And people see it. And if it fails, fine. If it’s great, wonderful. But for my own peace of mind, I need to have –
SUSAN BRICKEN: What has taken so long, do you think?
JOHN MCALLISTER: We have a young woman who’s working for us right now as the post-supervisor, so she’s just sort of making sure that the color correct, the sound mix, these sort of technical film things that you need to do to make it look the same and have all the sound levels, stuff like that…I mean, if she were involved in the project from day one – I guess I’m a little lazy. I take my time with things. And I would say that’s the biggest reason why it’s nine years because – I mean, we had a lot of footage. We had 300 hours of footage. So, parsing that into a story…I really wish, knowing what I know now – we spent a lot of time just filming people playing bridge in China, where this youth tournament took place, and we could have done that with just cameras over the table of the kids on our team. And then, we would have all this footage of all the hands, all the deals they played, which would have been huge. And then, we could have saved the camera people from embedding with the team. Spending time with them while they’re not playing, so we really get to know the kids. And also, there’s fascinating kids. This is a tournament – in our event, there were 17 countries taking place. Some of the kids I met – I went to the Tel Aviv Bridge Festival in 2014 or 15, and I befriended one of the young women on the Israeli team that the U.S. – and I don’t want to spoil anything, but they had a big match with Israel. And this woman couldn’t believe that I had made a movie that included that match. And now, those two are good friends – her and her partner are great friends of mine. We love playing hearts, so it all goes back to hearts.
[0:42:05.9]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow. That’s a whole story. That’s sort of a tasty thing. It all goes back to hearts. But I mean, you’d never done anything. You’d never made a movie, a film, before.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I worked with a film distribution consultant named Keith Ochwat. And when he has his seminars, when I sign up for them, it asks how many films you’ve made. And because we had released an earlier version of this, I kind of feel like this is my second one, even though we didn’t actually go through the filming part again. But going through the post-production process again, it feels kind of like my second one.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Incredible. I think that’s an incredible story.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Thank you.
SUSAN BRICKEN: I do.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, I appreciate it. It’s nice to – sometimes it’s hard for me to take that in.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, to do something like that. And I can’t wait to see it. I want you to send it to me, please. I’d be really grateful to see it.
JOHN MCALLISTER: OK, alright. I will, I will. I’m excited for you to see it. I think you are our target audience, 100%.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Well, and who knows where this BridgeWhiz is going to lead. I’m hoping we will get lots of things going because of this, and kids in our area with tournaments, and tournaments with their families – parents, kids.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Have you had an example of this – your enthusiasm. Can you give another example of where maybe you’ve been really enthusiastic in something and give us an outcome?
[0:43:39.2]
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes. Two things just come to mind – three things. I joined the rescue squad when we first moved down here. Don’t ask me why, but I did. And I was in my 60s, so it was a little – they thought it was a little strange. But in this area, particularly, having been on the rescue squad for a while, it was very evident to me that people have no knowledge of health matters. I mean, we live in the Stroke Belt, for heaven’s sakes. I mean, we get a lot of people with strokes in our area. Nobody knows why. I think it’s NASCAR, but don’t tell them that. So, they have no – I can’t tell you the numbers of people that I picked up that were having a stroke, and stroke is very time-sensitive. They can intervene if you get to the hospital very quickly. But people didn’t know that they were having a stroke because they didn’t know the signs and the symptoms. And it’s heartbreaking when you realize that yes, my wife has been having these symptoms all day long. We finally call you, and I know it’s too late.
So, I started a program. I stood at the Walmart and the grocery store and asked people if they knew the signs and symptoms of stroke, signs and symptoms of a heart attack. Could they do adult CPR? And their knowledge was abysmal. No, they didn’t know much about stroke. Know something about the left arm – heart attack, yeah. It’s your left arm. Or pain. An elephant – some people knew about an elephant sitting on my chest. They knew nothing, really, and none of them could do adult CPR.
So, I created a program called Take Heart. And it was an hour-long program in which we taught signs and symptoms of a stroke, signs and symptoms of a heart attack. And how to do adult CPR. And, very important to us, what to do when you call the ambulance. If you live in the country in a trailer, you don’t turn off all your porch lights because we can’t find you. And the importance of street signs.
We have a big festival every year in this town, and there’s a pizza eating contest. And so, we had the guy announcing it – he started saying things like, “Oh, I’m getting short of breath. Oh…” blah blah blah. And then suddenly, he drops after he announces a winner, he drops to the ground, and we immediately start playing “Staying Alive,” and come out on stage and ask the audience – you know, Tinkerbell, let’s save [clapping] save him, we have to save him. So, we taught them how to do CPR. And what’s amazing about that is that a year and a half later, I had a woman come up to me, and she was doing this [CPR gesture]. She said, “Susan, I still remember how to do CPR. And you know what? I taught my neighbor. I told them about this, and she did it on her husband until the ambulance arrived.”
JOHN MCALLISTER: Wow.
SUSAN BRICKEN: It’s just amazing. So, that was a really cool thing. It was just fun. We had a “Captain Take Heart.” We had a lot of fun with it because it was an interesting thing. And they did a – when I started swimming a number of years ago – 10, 12 years ago now – 10 people drown in this country every day, and a good percentage of those that drown are children. I mean, that’s – in this area in particular, swimming is not something that, culturally, people do. And people live on farms, and they have ponds on farms. And we have rivers. I mean, there’s water every place. And on the ambulance, we’ve gone on the river to pick up people near-drowning. So, I started a program at the pool to try to teach adults that couldn’t swim not how to swim, because that’s going to take more time, but at least to get them acclimated to the water so that they would be comfortable, and they would know what to do were they to be immersed.
So, that was a really good program. The first woman was a woman who lived on a farm with five grandchildren who couldn’t swim, and she couldn’t swim, and they have four ponds. And she lived in terror that something was going to happen. So, that was a good thing, I think, and they’re still doing that program at the pool.
Swimming is good. Do you swim?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yeah, of course. I mean, I’m not a swimmer like you, you know? You’re the fastest woman in your age division.
SUSAN BRICKEN: How did you know that?
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, you know, I did a little –
SUSAN BRICKEN: You have your way. Oh, oh, OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I just Googled “Susan Bricken,” and I Googled it without bridge. And you were – you came up with – I’m going to include it in the show notes, but you were the fastest woman in your age group.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah. Albert – I had a coach – he’s like my adopted kid now – from Venezuela. He’s famous in Venezuela. You mention his name in Venezuela, they all know him. He came to this country when he was 16. He’s been to the Olympics four times. He just went as a coach this time. But he came to coach at Virginia Tech and to coach the people that were Olympic hopefuls here. And he was my coach, so he’d go from the college students to the Olympic hopefuls to me, seamlessly. It was wonderful. He didn’t roll his eyes, either. So, it’s been fun, and I love him.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Where is Christiansburg in relationship to Virginia Tech campus/Blacksburg? Not that I’ve been to Blacksburg, but –
SUSAN BRICKEN: Twenty minutes. The Town of Christiansburg and then, it just sort of melds right into the Town of Blacksburg. It’s unfortunate because the Tech kids have to get up – I mean, swimmers get up at 5:00 in the morning. Swimming’s an early morning sort of thing, and they have to drive all the way to Christiansburg to the pool.
[0:49:54.1]
JOHN MCALLISTER: So, the Tech swimming pool is in Christiansburg?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, yes. There are two pools on campus, but neither are appropriate. They both need work. They’re both undergoing repairs now.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And how is it that Christiansburg has a pool of this size?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Because the town manager was a swimmer at Virginia Tech, and his son was a swimmer at Virginia Tech. And Tech needed a pool, and Blacksburg said no thank you. So, they built it at Christiansburg, much to the consternation of the local populous because they don’t swim. And here’s this expensive, huge edifice going up. And even now, many of the people that come to the pool are from Blacksburg. But we get swim meets. It brings a lot of revenue into the town. So, it’s a good thing for the town. It’s a world-class facility. I call it the “jewel” of Christiansburg. It’s a great pool. We’re lucky.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Have you had any second thoughts about Christiansburg in your time there?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes. Yes, I have. Yes, I have. Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Where are you with that right now?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Well, we’re here, and my husband is perfectly happy here. But you know, eventually, being a New Yorker, I’m coming here particularly. The pace of life here is very slow. In fact, when I joined the rescue squad, they told me I would have to go for training twice a week to Charlottesville. And I came home and announced that. My husband said, “You’re going to drive three hours back and forth twice a week?” It wasn’t Charlottesville, it was “Chahottesville.” The ambulance, the dispatcher would have to spell street names to me. And things are very slow here. There’s nothing to eat. You know, people here are wonderful. I mean, it’s a wonderful place in many ways.
JOHN MCALLISTER: What did you think of Charlottesville?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Charlottesville’s lovely. Charlottesville’s wonderful. And I wish when we retired, we had looked at Charlottesville is what I think. Yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, the Unit President, John Markey, said we can’t have you.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yeah, I’d come in a heartbeat. John’s great. John’s a great bridge player. We have John Markey and Marsha Platnick. And she’s very well-known.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Isn’t she is West Virginia, though? I thought she lived –
[0:52:33.4]
SUSAN BRICKEN: She does, yeah. But she comes to our Blacksburg club all the time. And Marsha’s being very instrumental in helping with BridgeWhiz because Marsha does a lot of math contests with kids. And her son is a very well-known bridge player.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes, well, one of them lives here. Brian Platnick is the son who’s a world champion. But her other son, David Platnick, lives in Charlottesville.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow. Incredible, yeah.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Well, Susan. Is there anything else that I should have asked you that I have failed to ask?
SUSAN BRICKEN: No, I don’t think so. Fingers crossed, and I hope that BridgeWhiz takes off to the extent that I hope it does. And I hope people locally see the value in it because I think it’s a tremendous opportunity.
JOHN MCALLISTER: And what did your husband say about you being on a bridge podcast tonight?
SUSAN BRICKEN: He just snickers. You know? He’s actually very supportive, and it’s Chuckie that – I wouldn’t have been able to assemble all this. You know, he did all that.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Right. You’re the second guest that has used The Setting Trick headset and microphone.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Wow.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Yes. I appreciate that you described it as very impressive in your email earlier.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, yes. I mean, I can’t tell you what it’s – I really feel important. I like it a lot.
JOHN MCALLISTER: [Laughter] Alright, Susan. It has been a pleasure to get to know you better. I want to play with you on Bridgebase in a game.
SUSAN BRICKEN: Oh, John. Oh. OK.
JOHN MCALLISTER: I’m putting – you just tell me when. You invite me. Will you invite me over email?
SUSAN BRICKEN: Yes, I will do it. It’ll be [inaudible]. I’ll get out my books tonight. Thank you, John. This has been wonderful. It’s been fun.
JOHN MCALLISTER: My pleasure. Thank you so much, Susan.
SUSAN BRICKEN: I’ve enjoyed talking to you.
JOHN MCALLISTER: Same.
SUSAN BRICKEN: OK, take care.