[00:00:00] Hi, this is John. Welcome to another episode of The Setting Trick. We have something a little different for you today. I was recently a guest on my friend Kai Eckert's podcast, who is an American junior bridge player. It's called It's Your Call. And we are going to discuss a bidding problem that Kai had in great detail.
[00:00:25] If you typically just listen to the audio for The Setting Trick, then you might want to consider going to our Setting Trick YouTube page and watching this episode because there are going to be points where Kai is entering a hypothetical bid that I'm talking about into a bidding box.
[00:00:48] And so you might be able to follow along a little easier that way. Regardless, thank you to Kai for letting us share this and the ACBL. And if you enjoy this format, then please check out Kai's show, It's Your Call, on YouTube. Thank you for watching and listening.
[00:01:14] Also, I would like to point out that for those of you who are Bridge Players and listening to this, there is going to be a point where I'm talking about this hypothetical slam auction and I'm going to be saying something that's not true. Specifically, one version is saying that I can't show my, that I have an even number of key cards, which I don't, or that I can't show my club void, which are both wrong.
[00:01:43] But we do eventually figure it out. So please bear with us and be patient. And I know you're going to be just turning over with frustration, but maybe you'll be looking forward to it now that I've warned you. Thanks, fellow bridge lovers, and welcome to It's Your Call. I'm your host, Kai. And today I am so lucky to be joined here by John McAllister. Welcome to It's Your Call.
[00:02:12] It is my pleasure to be here, Kai. Thank you so much. You invited me yesterday and we're doing it today because I was full of enthusiasm for participating in this. Yeah, I was glad that you were so readily able to do this. And if y'all didn't know John McAllister already, I'm sure that many of you do. He is an absolute pioneer in the bridge media industry that we are growing.
[00:02:39] He made the brainchild. His brainchild is Double Dummy, which is an outstanding documentary that covered the traversal of a USA youth team. It was an absolutely outstanding watch. I'm so happy you put that together. And also he is the person who runs and hosts the Setting Trick podcast, which has been running for such a long time now.
[00:03:04] And I have been diving deep into it and the conversations have been just so insightful. So thank you to bringing all of those conversations out into the front light for people to be able to hear. I just wanted to ask you real quick. What was like the inspiration for starting the Setting Trick podcast?
[00:03:25] So it goes back to Double Dummy. And we were just in Memphis for the NABCs and the host hotel there is the Sheridan. And I was at a meeting of the ACVL Education Foundation, which I told you not to say almost, but funny now that I'm saying that. And it was on the second floor of the Sheridan. And so when I went to my first NABC, it was in spring of 2012.
[00:03:55] And I had just quit my job doing marketing for a hedge fund. And so being back up there on that second floor, I remember that's where there was a brainstorming session about how do we get more young people interested in learning bridge. And that was where I first had the idea for what would become Double Dummy, the film.
[00:04:21] And then probably like a couple of years later, I was thinking, I remember I was driving my car and I was thinking about ways to, we were about, we were not anywhere close to finishing the film, but I was thinking about ways to get the word out about the film. And that's where I first had the idea for doing a podcast. And probably it probably took me four years to actually record my first episode.
[00:04:46] But I remember just a feeling I had after recording that first episode, like what an accomplishment it felt like. And I recorded one yesterday and it's, it's really a treat to be able to share, you know, people's fellow bridge player stories with the broader bridge community. Yeah. Thank you for all of that work. And yeah, that's awesome. The idea of getting more people into youth bridge and people listen to podcasts now.
[00:05:16] So get into the podcast area. So revolutionizing bridge like that. But not only does he do insane media work for bridge. He also is a very accomplished bridge player. He won the mixed Swiss in the fall 2023 NABC. And also he was a part of a team that won the Mitchell BAM in 2022. So congratulations on those victories and many more to come to you as well,
[00:05:45] because I see that you have been placing very highly recently, getting a lot of platinum points. There was also a whole story recently about this last Spingold. You were on a team with a team of juniors that were, I don't know how you pronounced it, but you misspelled Aaron Silverstein's name and then called it the Silverstein Destroyers or something. Is there a little story behind that? Yeah.
[00:06:10] So the most prestigious event, in my opinion, at the spring NABC is the Vanderbilt. And I'm friends with a kid named Ethan Derman, who's from Baltimore. I'm from Charlottesville, Virginia. And so we've played some. And he texted me about a month before the event. And he said, you know, I'm my junior part. He's Ethan 17.
[00:06:38] His partner, Jack Bojie is 18. And they texted me. Ethan texted me and said, hey, Jack and I are looking for teammates for the Vanderbilt. And I just sort of said, oh, OK. I hadn't I didn't have any plans yet. And I and and and they're good friends. And their junior teammate is Avery Silverstein, who's 16. And I said, what's Avery doing? And he he responded. She's down. She's down.
[00:07:06] So I wasn't really expect I wasn't necessarily asking, you know, to play with them. But I was like, OK, let's do it. And so all three of them are on the USA one under 21 junior team for this year, which is the team that we featured from Double Dummy 13 years ago. And they're they're Avery's dad is professional player Aaron Silverstein. And so he mentors these kids.
[00:07:35] And I've gotten to know them together. We played at a regional last year together. And so one time in the Zoom after they played, Aaron misspelled his last name Silverstein. Oh, no. Oh, no. And so then it just like totally stuck. And so I thought that our team name should be Silverstein.
[00:08:01] And there's a local bluegrass band here in Charlottesville called the Bluegrass Destroyers. And I didn't realize it initially, but I'm pretty sure that's where I got the destroyers aspect. And so the funny thing about that team was that the collective age of the four people on the team was 99 years old. And I'm 48. Amazing. Yeah, no. And you guys had an outstanding run as well. What you made it to the quarters, right?
[00:08:30] No, we made it to we lost in the round of 16. But but I've been playing these tournaments. My first one, like I said, was Memphis 2012. I've been playing basically every national since then. And I've never had so many people in the bridge world rooting for me. And it was because those kids, you know, we were a team of underdogs. We got really lucky to come back from 62 down at the half in our first round match versus
[00:08:58] the Rubenstein team. And then we pulled off another upset in the round of 32 against the Hella team. Yeah. And so it was I was strutting around, strutting around Memphis downtown for for a good couple days with that with that stuff happening. Outstanding. Congratulations. And I'm so happy that you played with them. They're friends of mine as well. And best of luck to them in their international journey.
[00:09:27] They've already gone before placing like I believe it was second in the U21 or the U16 ones in Veldhoven. And hopefully they're going to have another great result in the U21s. So, yeah, thanks for being on a team with them and, you know, helping them. I'm sure that they held their own completely, not discounting them at all because they're outstanding players to get to that point. So well done. Thank you.
[00:09:55] But, yeah, I've got – well, I mean, this is no Vanderbilt problem. But are you ready for It's Your Call? Absolutely. I've watched a prior episode with my good friend Olivia Schurzen, and I'm familiar with the format. So let's hit me. All right. Let's go. All right. So this is your hand. You are not the dealer, so don't get thinking too much already.
[00:10:23] But the context is you are playing match points in a small club game, and your partner is Kevin Rosenberg, if that's important context. And your partner is the dealer. And things start out with a one club opening from your partner. Okay. And you get a one heart over call from East.
[00:10:53] And it's your call. How do you start this one out? Well, I'm fired up that I'm playing with Kevin Rosenberg. He's a great partner. And, yeah, like, lucky you. Yeah. No, I was very, very lucky. I think the first bid here is pretty easy. I'm going to bid two diamonds. Yeah. Start describing the shape of your hand, keeping things simple, making a forcing bid. Nice and easy.
[00:11:19] And your partner follows up with a to no Trump response. And it goes past to you. How do you continue? What is, like, an ideal contract that you're thinking about getting to at this point? Well, let's see. I mean, I definitely think slams in the picture with having this ace, king, seventh of diamonds.
[00:11:50] The fact that I don't fit my partner's clubs isn't great, but he only promised three of them. Right. He has limited his hand. So, you know, like, he probably has a weak no Trump with a hard stopper. I mean, he could have, like, the king of hearts.
[00:12:15] So, I probably am going to Q bid East suit. I'm going to bid the... I mean, I don't want to... I'm not sure. I don't think if I bid three diamonds, it is forcing. I mean, I would like to, you know, I would like to get going in the diamond situation. So, I have seven, nine, 13, 15. So, I have 15 high card points.
[00:12:40] I mean, I can probably stand, like, if I bid three hearts and let's say Kevin bids three no. Mm-hmm. Now, I'm going to bid four diamonds. Mm-hmm. And he could bid four no over that and says, you know, I am not interested in a diamond slam. Okay. And I think four no is pretty safe. Yeah. Okay. So, like, if you...
[00:13:07] This is, like, the scenario that you're putting forward. Yeah. So, like, let's just talk about the scenario for a little bit because I want to firstly get off to what does three hearts itself mean to you? What are you portraying with your hand? What necessarily are you looking for from your partner? What is three hearts here? I mean, three hearts says, like, I've got a very good hand. Yeah.
[00:13:37] And I'm probably coming in diamonds or clubs. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I'm... And my next bid is probably going to, you know, explain to him what... Where I'm making this slam try. Right. So, this is kind of more of a slam-going hand. And you're getting that out there immediately.
[00:14:06] So, you could be, like, diamond single suited or diamonds and clubs. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. And what... So, if partner bids three no Trump, which... What do you think three no Trump is saying? Is this kind of, like, just a default response? Saying, partner, I'm not... Like, I don't have much more to describe about my hand? Or, like, what are the other options for partner in this position in your mind?
[00:14:34] I mean, I think... When my partner bids three no Trump, I think it probably means that, like, my heart... Like, I'm... My heart stopper is solid. You know, maybe if they were worried about their heart stopper, they could maybe bid three spades. Okay. As a punt. Okay. But I think if they bid three no, they're like, you know... I'm not so worried... I mean, the problem is it's a crowded auction, you know? Right. Like, I bid three hearts.
[00:15:04] He doesn't have a lot of options. This definitely is a harder hand than the one that I watched you do with Olivia. Oh, sorry. My bad. We're gonna have to tell Olivia that I gave you a harder one. No, no. I really struggled bidding this one. I was in pain. But I'm with you so far. I did bid three hearts. Partner bid three no Trump. Okay. And I sat here for a while as well. And I was thinking... Like, I...
[00:15:34] I didn't want to give up and bid four diamonds. But there was part of me saying, like, oh, but there's club wastage probably. And this just feels so ugly. Like, it's either three no Trump or just, like, or slam at this point. And it's just like, do I... It feels like things could go really bad or it could go really right. And it's just a guess at this point. So when you bid four diamonds, which is a consideration of yours, this is kind of like a slam try saying long and diamonds.
[00:16:04] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And you said for you that four no Trump here is just to play and not key card. Correct? Yeah, definitely. I think that's kind of an expert standard that four no says not interested. Gotcha. Just because, like, if you bid four no here and it's key card, how the heck are you going to sign off below the five level? Right.
[00:16:32] You need to have some sort of option to stay low. And I do find it hilarious that we, if this were the case, we would see a two no Trump, three no Trump, four no Trump from partner. I think that pretty things like this need to be pointed out. But your partner at this point, after bidding four diamonds, which is that your call at this point? Yeah, for sure. For sure? Okay. Well, this is a slam worthy hand. All right. So your partner bids four hearts here.
[00:17:02] Now, and you don't really have many discussions with partner, but you don't play kickback. Okay. That's one thing that you don't have. Okay. Well, I'm bidding four spades. I mean, yeah, I mean, I, let me, I mean, I think I'm just going to bid four spades because I mean, I'm trying to think if there's going to be a situation where like if partner
[00:17:30] signs off and diamonds and I just bidding a slam now problem with bidding a slam is that I can't, if I bid key card, I mean, if, if my partner is bidding four hearts, I think that's the ace of hearts. Right. So now like the queen of hearts is a trick and all, I mean, most likely because the king is with ease based on the over call.
[00:17:59] But you know, the, the spade finesse rates to be on, you know, I was thinking before this bid that if my partner had like the jack of spades, the king of hearts and the jack of diamonds, uh, that, you know, slam through the, through the over caller. I mean, that's five high card points, you know, like, and obviously, so you can have like ace king of clubs or something.
[00:18:27] You do need some entry to partner's hand to take those, some of these finesses. Um, I was worried about like, say partner has king third of hearts. It might just go ace of hearts, heart rough. Yeah. Against big diamonds. But, uh, this four heart bid definitely improves that. I mean, the question is, do I want to just bid? Like the, the reason that I'm, the reason that I'm hesitating to bid for spades is, uh,
[00:18:57] because I don't want to be like F like if partner thinks and then signs off slowly. I mean, am I just going to bid a slam anyway? Uh, like, is there a play for seven? Let's say he's got the, okay. So let's give him the best hand. Ace of hearts, king of spades, queen of diamonds. Right. That's nine high card points. Uh, we still have a heart loser. Um, I mean,
[00:19:27] I almost just want to bid a slam. It's possible that we would want to play in no Trump, although it is a club game. It's not, people don't bid a lot of slams and club games. Um, and even if I do, let's say I bid for spades, it's possible that partner's going to bid for no. And now I'm gonna have to decide if I show my void or not. And if I do show my void,
[00:19:56] he's not going to really know that it's clubs. Like, uh, I mean, I said two key cards. So I would five. it would probably be our void showing bid for two key cards. So, you know, he, he might think I have a heart void. Right. Um, so I'm just wondering if practically speaking, that bidding six diamonds is just kind of, you know, now that I've gotten this help from him, it also, you know, it also might be beneficial, uh,
[00:20:27] to bid six diamonds. Cause it might make the lead, you know, six spades might, or four spades might give, uh, the, the hand on lead a better idea of what to lead. Right. So, uh, uh, I'm deciding between four, four spades and six diamonds. Um, okay. Yeah. I mean, is if,
[00:20:54] am I really going to sign off of partner bids five diamonds now? After the four spades bid. Yeah. Uh, Hmm. You know, obviously we don't have this much time at the table, right? Um, it's, it's a benefit of the video format, right? You can think all you want that it's your call. Yeah, but it's not really practical. I mean, it's probably not a great, um,
[00:21:25] for my own purposes. True. like, is there upside to bidding four spades now that we can get to seven? I don't think we're going to, I don't know that we're going to make seven. I mean, we might not even make six, you know, like we might, although the ace of hearts is a really good card for partner now. I think I'm just going to bid six diamonds. All right. Just throwing out six diamonds.
[00:21:49] And you cited a lot of different logic here where four spades doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. Um, in terms of like, just, uh, figuring out if you're going to go to slam, because you already said, like, if you bid four spades and partner, uh, just signs off, are you going to bid slam anyway? And you might've come to the conclusion of, yes, I was just going to bid slam anyway. So what's the point of bidding four spades and giving the opponents more information.
[00:22:14] There was also the idea of four spades and partner bids for no Trump. Um, now, if you're familiar with the void showing responses, which John was talking about, um, if you bid five, no Trump, you're saying partner, I've got a undisclosed void, but I have an even number of key cards. And when, what John was saying was that he's not sure if partner is going to think that I've got a club void or if I've got a heart void.
[00:22:42] And partner still is not going to be able to evaluate their hand properly, uh, opposite the five note Trump. And we're already at the sixth level. Um, so it's not going to be a particularly helpful thing. Um, if you didn't know the void showing responses, then, uh, you know, bidding this void yourself, like if we had another key card, let's say we had the ace of hearts as well. Of course, we would probably just be going to grand or something like that. And the auction would here would not have happened, but this would be showing an odd number of key cards,
[00:23:11] specifically with the club void. So just wanted to specify some of the things that John was talking about. If you had any extra comments on me, like over summarizing things, then let me know. Oh, wait, I have three with a void. So I actually, I could bid six. I forgot that. We do have the king of diamonds. I do have. Yeah. So I could bid six diamonds and maybe partner. No. Cause it's still hearts. It still could be hearts. Yeah. Yeah. I did think though, after I did six diamonds, I said, well,
[00:23:41] maybe if I did four space, we can play six now, but I think I'm, I've been six diamonds. Yeah. So you bid six diamonds, but also another thing that John was saying there was that if the six clubs itself is showing three key cards with a void, but if he were to be bidding six hearts, he'd be bypassing six diamonds. Uh, so technically when he bids six clubs,
[00:24:07] this could still be a heart void because he doesn't want to bid six hearts to just be like, I, uh, I, I have a, um, a heart void because then you'd just be bypassing six diamonds and you'd have to be going to six. No Trump. If you don't have all the key cards. Um, but yeah, just bidding six diamonds. I think it's completely fair envisioning partner with the appropriate hand, uh, is just very,
[00:24:36] very much a juicy thing. Um, so I think it's time to reveal partner's hand and we can come down to the conclusion of what we think we should have done with both hands at our disposal. So I have a feeling that bidding six diamonds is wrong though, because like, I don't know that you would be, I imagine you probably bid six diamonds and I feel like it's wrong. So let's see, let's unveil it, do it for me. Yeah. All right.
[00:25:03] So your partner holds three small spades. Ace double, ace, Jack, Doubleton of hearts. Okay. Queen, Doubleton of diamonds. That's great. I was like, when I saw the queen diamond, queen, Doubleton of diamonds, I was like, thank God partner. You've saved me this time and partner held the King Jack 10, six of clubs. Oh, okay. Which is a little bit. Ew.
[00:25:32] Yeah. Um, he's got two entries, like the queen of diamonds. Yeah. So overall the hand is, is very, it's very, very ugly in terms of, uh, we've got two spade losers and we've got pretty much a guaranteed heart loser. Um, and we would love to have more than just two entries as well. Yeah. That would be a blessing. Um,
[00:25:59] cause then we might have a line where we're able to double roughing finesse the club suit. Uh, two entries is not enough to do that right now. Um, yeah. So we, uh, we, we found six diamonds, but is it the right thing to find? Uh, my auction went a little bit better. Uh, not a little bit better. My auction went a little bit different where I said, I said four spades because I'm like partner control, but I'm also going to control bid. Why not? Uh, and then Kevin bid five clubs.
[00:26:29] Hmm. Last train. Five diamonds, like a pro. Well, tell me. Well, I know, no, no, no. I didn't. I did six diamonds. Cause I was just like, I don't know. I don't know what's going on anymore. I don't know. We don't have many agreements here. We're just, I just was like, well, I'm going down to the six diamonds train. So last train choo choo. Let's go. Um, yeah, no, I, if, if, if you had this auction where partner bid five clubs, which was last train,
[00:26:57] would you have been six diamonds or would you have been able to stop? Um, sorry. I just was playing with a pen and I just completely, uh, Oh no. Covered my fingers in ink. I do that. Um, uh, uh, yeah. Over five clubs. Um, he has 11. Um,
[00:27:28] Hmm. I don't, I don't know. I doubt it. Kai. I mean, I didn't talk a lot about signing off. No, you know, like, I, I doubt it. I, I wouldn't do it either. I'm just like, yeah, no, just six diamonds. It just feels like too many good things could happen. You know, just give partner, the King of spades, the ace of hearts, which we're very confident they have in the clean of diamonds. And we're in a very happy position. It's just move that King of clubs over just a little bit, please,
[00:27:58] please. Uh, it didn't happen, unfortunately. Um, but I think I don't, not to criticize Kevin's bidding, but I want to also ask, would you take the same actions with the North hand or would you have a different way of showing your hand? Um, um, if you held those North cards with our bids, I can't see the North cards. I mean, I remember what the hand is, but, uh, yeah, I, I, I, I edit those in in post, but I can give you,
[00:28:27] I can give you a, King Jack. I sent them in the little chat in. Okay. If ever you need a little mental reminder. Um, so before I answer that question, my question is, what did they lead? Probably not a heart. Oh, that's a good question. Uh, yes. So it went, so we, we ended up in six diamonds.
[00:28:55] The opening lead was, and they were leading into us from, you know, East was leading. What did they lead? They didn't lead a heart. Yeah, that would be bad for them. Cause we just can, we can maybe make it if the spade finesse is on. We were pretty close to making it. We got plenty of entries in that case. And the spade finesse is on.
[00:29:24] I think they just led a diamond. They must've, cause they didn't lead clubs. They didn't lead hearts. And they didn't lead spades either. So I think they just led a diamond. So he probably played the nine or the 10. Yes. You're not like completely down. Like, let's say the over caller has three diamonds. Uh, no, you're no, let's see.
[00:29:54] It's over caller has three diamonds. Can't you just like, uh, come to your hand, spade finesse. Uh, Oh no, no. Cause you can't pitch the spade. And then, yeah, you can't do that. Nevermind. It just, no, like I, I stared at it for such a long time.
[00:30:23] And eventually I came to the decision. I'm like, well, if East, like, I think I was thinking the same thing where if East has three hearts, you can like, uh, like try to get like an extra, you can rough, you can pitch it, play a heart and pitch a spade and then rough. But I guess if they had four diamonds, you could do that, but you gotta, I don't know if you can do,
[00:30:51] you're going to have to be roughing down the, uh, yeah. I mean, what did Kevin think about, about, about, about your auction? Uh, I didn't, I didn't really ask to be honest. I, I, well, I did ask. I was, it was an evening game and I was very, very drowsy. So I didn't really remember too much of our conversation, but I think that in the end he was like, it's just a really, really hard hand to bid.
[00:31:21] Yeah. And that's why I brought it onto it's your call because I had to give somebody else the challenge of this. Um, yeah. Thank you. One thing that he did mention is, is that he could, instead of bidding to know Trump, he could have, uh, bid three clubs or done something that would have been explaining clubs a little bit more so that I would have a better idea of the shape of their hand. And if partner does bid three clubs, I am a lot less interested. Um, yeah,
[00:31:48] but that's one way that this could have gone a little bit differently is if instead of to know Trump, we see a three clubs call from partner, which would, uh, kind of ruin our hopes a little bit more, which is exactly what we needed on this particular hand. Um, I mean, I guess there's another scenario we could go down. If partner bids three clubs, what do we do at this point? We have to bid, uh, uh,
[00:32:18] seven, nine, 13, 15. Uh, I mean, the, I think the two choices are three hearts and three now. Um, I agree. Like three diamonds is not forcing. Right. Um,
[00:32:50] yeah. Hmm. I don't know. Do I want partner to clear it? Um, yeah, I, the thing is partner can always punt three spades. That doesn't really mean anything. I guess I'd probably did three hearts kind of showing doubt about,
[00:33:20] like, I got a heart stopper, but it's not the most robust heart stopper. Yeah. If I had the 10 of hearts, it would be better. Yeah. For sure. The nines, you know, partner, I like the nine, but 10 would be better. So maybe I, maybe I would bid three hearts. And partner would bid three, no Trump as they do have the face of hearts. Yeah. And would this, would this end for you at this point?
[00:33:51] Seven, nine, 13, 15. Uh, I mean, I realize I'm counting the high card points, but I also have seven, seven diamonds. Right. So it's like, it's not really like 15 points is like with a seven card suit. That's pretty good. Yeah. Um, I mean, I could bid, I don't know. I could still bid. I could still see myself bidding four diamonds.
[00:34:20] I could still see myself bidding for no Trump over three. No Trump. For no Trump's another good option. Quantitative. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I don't know. I'm not sure. Um, I feel like, I feel like, if I feel like if I'm making a slam try, I feel like I have to bid four diamonds. Yeah. I, I agree. I think this just tells partner more about shape and then it becomes a more of a cooperative situation. Yeah.
[00:34:49] If you're thinking about a slam try. Um, but mine is still going to slam try as opposed to just passing the three. No Trump. Yeah. Maybe I did. Maybe I would be, I mean, I can't pass three. No Trump. Uh, yeah, no, I might bid over four hearts. I might bid four spades now. I mean, yeah, four hearts, four spades. I mean,
[00:35:18] even now though, my partner's made a positive mood move for slam. Uh, yeah. You just need partner to hold the dang King of spades, right? Yeah. It would be interesting to hear Kevin and his, his partner for the nationals, uh, Brian planet. Yeah. Well, he, he's a, he's a pretty regular commenter on the content that I make luckily. So I get to hear a lot and who knows, maybe I've forgotten something about this hand. I forgot the auction and he's going to correct me on it,
[00:35:48] but he normally comments or Brian comments, Kevin comments. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin is, Kevin is one of my favorite commenters. He's like written me full, uh, stinking essays on, um, on how things, on how I could have done better in little situations, which I, I deeply appreciate, like just mentoring from Kevin. Like, thank you so much. Um, um, yeah, but yeah, this is, this is a very,
[00:36:18] very difficult hand. I think it's just hard to stay out of six diamonds. I can also see how this is a great, uh, opportunity for you to learn, you know, like, uh, you know, you're playing in the, I saw you play in the junior trials and, uh, you know, this is a great way to, you know, better understand bidding. I mean, it's helpful for me to elucidate my thoughts about it, like to have to verbalize them. I don't,
[00:36:48] I haven't had the opportunity to do that very much. So, uh, yeah. I mean, that's one of my favorite things about making videos is that I'm like, I verbally have to say stuff and it makes me like, wait, that doesn't sound right. What are you doing? You know, uh, it, it really makes you think in a different way and adds different perspective. So I, I think that overall, like making videos has, uh, and verbalizing all the thought processes that I'm going through kind of like,
[00:37:15] makes me think about like what's good and what's bad and little shortcuts that I take that probably aren't so good. Hmm. But yeah, I think, I think I know, I mean, I know that I'm happy to share my thoughts with most anybody on a bidding problem. Uh, but, uh, you know, some, some professional bridge players are, are more reluctant to share their thoughts. Uh, but I think in a format like this, you know, you're really encouraging people to, you're going to get,
[00:37:45] you know, good, good, good, good ideas. Yeah. And it's in the best is too, is that it's like, real world experience where you, you know, you were sitting here with these problems. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I think that's, that's a great format for your own learning. Oh, for sure. No, I, I, I've definitely got many, many benefits from this, hearing different people's perspectives, different styles, different everything. And also lots of ideas that hadn't popped into my head before, just keep coming at me. And I'm like, Oh, I could have done that. I could have done that.
[00:38:15] I could have done that. Lots of bids that people are just like, yeah, no, you could do this. And I'm like, I didn't even think of that. So, yeah. And hopefully that helps everybody else as well. Like learning in a different way. I guess this is kind of just like sharing my learning with other people. In a way. Yeah, no, it's, it's, I mean, that's what, you know, the thing about bridge is like that. I've, one of the things I've learned is like, we just learn, like, it's just, sometimes it's just one little thing, you know, like it's,
[00:38:44] you learn one little thing like Zia, for example. I remember I was talking to him. I don't remember where it was when, but he was talking about like a bidding problem that I gave him. And he had queen in one in, in, in, in like a, unbid suit. Okay. And he's told me that he likes to bid, he likes to bid no Trump with queen and one. Because it's a good, it's positionally good. Yeah. And, you know, I,
[00:39:13] I had a hand in the, in a round of 32 match where I had like an 11 count with queen and one. I bid two. No, I, I bid, I think I bid four. I can't remember, but, you know, we got to three. that they, that they could beat, but it was really hard with the hand on lead to beat it. And, you know, those kinds of things, they, they, they, you know, they stay with me. Yeah.
[00:39:43] When you pick up a win and a big knockout match on a board, that's a, you know, that those are, those are those little gems. You never know when you're going to get, uh, yeah, but it's the combination of all those small things that, uh, you know, it's made me into the, you know, bridge player that I am. Yeah. Which is, which is, can be good and can be very bad. Yeah. Like as a bridge player, I'm saying. Yeah, I get it. I get it a lot. Well,
[00:40:11] I think that we have talked about this hand a lot. I think that it's impossible to keep either of us out of six diamonds on this hand. Even if partner bids three clubs, I would be a little bit more disinclined, but also I'm just like partner, partner's going to have the king of spades, right? Please. That's all I need partner to have and the queen of diamonds. But yeah. Um, I need to now ask the audience. Hello guys. What, what would you do with this hand? Oh my gosh. Do you, are there, are there ideas here that you haven't even,
[00:40:40] that we haven't even considered that you want to throw out there? Let us know. Would you be able to be kept out of six diamonds? Um, would you have the restraint? Um, so yeah, that's our questions. And, uh, yeah, let us know all the comments down below. Don't forget to like, subscribe, do all the things that help the YouTube algorithm spread bridge for us. Thank you so much. Glad that you were here. Thank you. I, I have one more point. Oh, good. I just interrupted your outro. That's fine.
[00:41:10] But the problem also though, is that like, how does the, the problem with like, okay, let's say, cause I was thinking if, if you know, your auction, you bid four spades, he bids five clubs. And now let's say you bid five diamonds. How is that going to score when you've got, I guess, diamonds break. So we've got seven diamond tricks. Uh, heart is eight. We've got 10 tricks and no Trump.
[00:41:39] So even it's possible that we like, it's going to be really hard to get out. I mean, depending on what they lead, like, uh, let's say they lead a spade is maybe best. So we would just, we could get, they could get two tricks if we knock out the heart. So we get seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. I mean, the problem is playing this hand match points.
[00:42:07] We're it's like very hard to stop in five. No Trump. Yeah. Like you would want to rather, you would much rather be playing in no Trump than in diamonds because just the, the, the trick points are not in your favor at all. So that's another argument for going to six because it's like, well, at this point it's impossible for me to stay in no Trump and, uh, might as well be in slam because everybody who decides to just pass three, no Trump at the club game is just going to be playing in three. No Trump.
[00:42:36] And any thing that we do in diamonds is not going to be able to, uh, beat the score that they get from that no Trump contract. So yeah, that's also a very, very good point. How did you score on the board? Do you know, do you remember? Uh, it w it was, I think that there, there was a little bit of company. It was like a shared bottom. So yeah, it was, how did you and Kevin, do in the, in the game? In the end, we got like a 70%.
[00:43:07] We, we did well. Uh, but yeah, it felt, it felt good. We had a lot of, this was probably our most difficult board that we had, but yeah, learned a lot. Always learn a lot whenever I'm playing with Kevin or watching Kevin. He's, uh, been doing a lot with Silicon Valley youth bridge and I'm also on that board. So we, we do a lot for the youth here or we try to do a lot for the youth here. And I, one of the benefits of being on that board as well, as I also get to go to all the events and, uh,
[00:43:37] listen to what Kevin has to say. So it's learning for me, but also I, I'm glad that we're providing all of these. I'm especially glad that we're providing a space for youth players to have the space to learn from Kevin and Amber and, uh, Will Watson. And sometimes. And you. Well, I admire that you're bringing your worst board from a 70% game to, uh, to the, uh, you know, the, to the classroom. Well,
[00:44:06] those are the best ones to bring to the classroom, right? Indeed. As long as you don't, you have an embarrassment tolerance, right? Yeah. But yeah, things happen. Um, thank you so much for being here, John. Thank you for all of your insights and thank you for reciprocating my struggle here. It was not just a simple solution. Oh yes. I would clearly just stay in five diamonds because of this, this, and this, it was not, it was not that we both made it to six diamonds. Yeah. We just have to,
[00:44:35] I guess we, I would say get Kevin to play it better, but I forgot we're declaring. So, uh, yeah, no, if we could have right side of the contract, uh, in that way, get Kevin to play it. Then, then certainly. Did you go down one? Yeah, it was, uh, yeah, it was down one. The spade finesse was on, actually, maybe it was down two in the end. You lost the heart and a spade probably. Yeah. did you take the heart finesse? I mean,
[00:45:03] in the end there was a position where I just like had nothing else to do, but take a heart finesse. Oh, no, no, no. Uh, I lost, I lost a diamond and I lost a spade in the end, I think is what I lost. A diamond and a heart. I'm pretty sure. Oh, were you surprised when the heart finesse lost? No. I was like, you bid hearts. Clearly you've got to have the king of hearts, right? You wouldn't be over calling one heart if you didn't have something there. I, you probably have much more experience with people bidding suits that they don't
[00:45:33] have much in. No, I mean, I, I'm definitely expecting the heart. I did. It's just a joke, you know, like a bridge humor, you know, like a non bridge player. Wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to make that joke to a non bridge player, but you know, a bridge player is experienced as you are. I can make that joke very easily. So that's part of one of the things that's so great about bridge is opportunity to, to joke, make bridge jokes. Yeah. We've got our own jokes. We've got bridge culture. All right.
[00:46:04] Thank you so much again. I, yeah, man. Yeah. All right. I look forward to seeing your, the final version. Oh, for sure. I'll be sending it to you. As soon as it gets posted, it's going to be up in like three weeks or so because I've got, I've got some others lined up and yeah. All right. All right. Thanks guys. Thank you everyone. Keep on bridging everybody. Bye. Bye.