Andrew Robson describes John’s false card, while playing with Olivia in the World Mixed Pairs, on his BridgeCast here.

Today, my guest is Olivia Schireson. She is a recent high-school graduate, in spite of her love for bridge, who just won the ACBL’s Queen of Bridge scholarship. She’s from the Bay Area and learned the game (reluctantly at first) from her father, Max, who is also a competitive player. Get to know Olivia, who called it a “disservice” to our listeners that she had not been on the podcast before. (Spoiler alert: she’s funny.)

Transcript:

John McAllister:

So, I am here today with Olivia Schireson, who told me ... Recently, we were talking about the prospect of her appearing on this podcast and she said, "It's a disservice to your viewers that I haven't appeared yet." And so then I said, "Well, you've got to come on." This was maybe three weeks ago. And you said, "I need to have a big result. A worthy result." And I'm like, "What are you talking about, Olivia? We came second in the mixed Board-A-Match together."

You are on the USA-1 team, playing in the Junior World Championships under 21, and then you and ... But you're finishing up your senior year of high school, and so you're finishing up your senior year and you're like, "I'm going to play in the team trials, the mixed team trials." And then you go on and almost win the USA-2 spot in the mixed team trials. You finished third, this Cinderella run. Anyway, we are righting wrongs having you on The Setting Trick.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I'm just glad that the viewers are finally getting what they deserve, with me being on the podcast. No, but thank you for having me. Super excited to be on. This should be fun.

John McAllister:

I used your words, viewers. I would be maybe a little cautious because I think more people probably interface with this podcast as listeners.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh.

John McAllister:

We recently, in the last, I don't know, 20 episodes maybe, we've started having a video component. But I think, for the majority of people who interact with this podcast, are probably listening. But, anyways.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, okay. Well, shout-out to the listeners too.

John McAllister:

Okay, there's two ways I could go with the start here. I think I'm going to start about how we got to know each other.

Olivia Schireson:

I think that'd be fun, yeah.

John McAllister:

So I am friends with your dad. I've played the team trials with your dad the last two years as my teammate. And in the summer nationals last year, in Providence, we needed a woman to make a mixed team for the mixed Board-A-Match. And I think I had probably met you before then, but I didn't really know you. I certainly knew your name. And we went on to finish second in that event, playing together for the first time, and hit it off. We became fast friends, played in the world championships mixed, together in Poland.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

And so, I mean, I would've rather been playing in the Spingold, but that was an unfortunate circumstance. But what a blessing it was because we finished second in the mixed event, which we probably weren't going to do in the Spingold, and now I've got a great friend. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast because you're so much fun to be around, even if, whatever. I don't even care what the conversation is like, you're just a super fun, good-humored person who I really enjoy my friendship with. And so, it's great to be here with you.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I could say all the same things about you. That mixed team was like, honestly, I'm just really happy it happened. Because first of all, I got to meet you, play with you, and our team was so much fun. Obviously it's nice to have a good result. It was also my first time playing with Michael Xu, who's my junior partner now. I'm pretty sure we hadn't ever played together and now we're playing together in the Under 21 World Championships. So, it was a pretty special tournament. It was the night before, we decided we were going to play, and then I happened to just play with two people that I would go on to play with a lot in the future and become good friends with. I was already friends with Michael, but yeah, that was definitely a super fun tournament.

John McAllister:

What were your plans when we ended up playing that mixed Board-A-Match? Did you have any plans for the next day?

Olivia Schireson:

I don't remember, to be honest. I think I had a few things that were like, oh, maybe I could play with this person. Maybe I could play that person. It's a bit of a nice position because oftentimes it's a little easier to find teammates and partners for mixed events for a woman. So I wasn't super worried, but definitely when Michael Xu texted me I was pretty excited. Because I thought it would be a good team, we could do well, and it'd be a lot of fun. And I was right about all of that, but it ended up being a lot better than I could have imagined, both in terms of the result and what came of it.

John McAllister:

I think, for me, I had never even come close to finishing second in an event prior to that. And so-

Olivia Schireson:

Well, you are a national champion now.

John McAllister:

Well, that's true, in mixed. I'm sorry, in Board-A-Match.

Olivia Schireson:

Board-a-match specialist.

John McAllister:

So I think for me, it gave me a lot of confidence, doing as well as we did. And I also think that it was not the Spingold, the quality of the opposition wasn't as tough as a premier event. But at the same time, doing well is great.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I think confidence in Bridge is everything. Oh, I said confidence, not competence.

John McAllister:

Oh, confidence.

Olivia Schireson:

No, I mean, I know you're fine with confidence. Competence, maybe you struggle with a little bit. Yeah, I think confidence is super important in Bridge. I've heard from a lot of really great players that you can never play Bridge scared. You always need to be confident in your actions, because if you're not confident in what you do, then why are you doing this play instead of that play? So that's definitely something that I'm working on. And I feel like when I'm confident is when I play best. Obviously overconfidence is also a problem, but just having a baseline feeling, like you can do well, is I think very important. So I mean in that vein, what I'm hearing is that also I am responsible for your national championships?

John McAllister:

Well, I will-

Olivia Schireson:

Does that also make me a national champion?

John McAllister:

No.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, okay. Soon.

John McAllister:

No.

Olivia Schireson:

I try my best.

John McAllister:

Having come in second, though, it was like ... I wanted to win that next time. I mean, it was the next tournament. And so, I don't know if that was a good shift, but I knew what it was like to finish second and I really wanted to win. And I have to say winning is better. I prefer winning.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. And then you did well in the Vanderbilt.

John McAllister:

Yes.

Olivia Schireson:

You beat Lebowitz.

John McAllister:

Yes. Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

But yeah, I remember ... honestly after, I was really sad after for a little bit. And then I was happy. But it was the 30 minutes after I was like, no one talk to me. Because I think we came into the last session at first.

John McAllister:

Yes.

Olivia Schireson:

I remember Michael, before the session, said, "Don't tell me." Because he just didn't want to think about it at all. He didn't want to know if we were in last, he didn't want to know if we were in first, because he knew it would be a distraction for him. And the whole session, honestly, it wasn't the best session. It just felt like it was slipping through our fingers, and by the end, I had estimated ... I estimated a bit, maybe I shouldn't have done this, but I estimated about what our score probably was. Just so that I could know maybe it's time to be a little more aggressive, which is a little silly at BAM because the results just come sometimes.

But I was just so sad playing the session. I was trying to play my best, still, and I made some good plays at the end, I didn't let it distract me, but I was just really sad. I felt like, at the beginning we had already blown in, we didn't have a chance, and then it ended. And then, I wouldn't have really been sad if we were fourth, but when we were second and it was like ... I felt like we had already blown it, but actually we were still right there in it. I don't know, something about that made it hurt more. But then after, I got over that pretty quickly and then I was just really happy to have come in second in national championship.

John McAllister:

Yeah. Yeah, I could say a lot more about that because Joyce Hill, the team that won was sponsored by Joyce Hill, and she's a client and she was playing the afternoon session. And so that, seemingly, was good for us. And I remember, I probably have told this story on here before, but I remember the way that I found out that they won and not us was because that they were celebrating after they compared. And I thought there's no way that they're celebrating like that if they didn't win. And they were in second place coming into the event, or coming into the last session, and the last thing I'll say is that I felt like it slipped away in Phoenix when we won our Board-A-Match. And so, when the woman from the bulletin, Amy Casanova, when she said, "Stick around for a photo," I was like, what? No way. No way.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. And the Board-A-Match was in Phoenix, right? You said?

John McAllister:

Yeah. The one that we won, yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

I mean, that was a really special tournament. I remember I was already really excited when you guys won, and then Kevin and Finn's team just kept winning. I was like, oh my God.

John McAllister:

Yeah. Yeah, they knocked us out of the [inaudible 00:11:47], actually. We played them in the last round of the qualifying. And if we had just tied, I think we would've both qualified, but they beat us by 20-something. 20 and change.

Olivia Schireson:

Oof. That's tough.

John McAllister:

Sometimes it's a good thing when you lose. Or you don't get to play.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Yeah.

John McAllister:

So you're 18, you're about to graduate. Today's May 22nd so you're graduating from high school. Are you going to graduate?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm actually done with all my classes. We have senior internships right now. I was working on my senior internships during the trials, don't worry.

John McAllister:

Really?

Olivia Schireson:

A little bit, yeah.

John McAllister:

What's your internship?

Olivia Schireson:

It's with the American Contract Bridge League Educational Foundation.

John McAllister:

Oh.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

I'm on the Board of that.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, really?

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

So you would've never signed off on the Olivia internship had you known?

John McAllister:

Well, I thought at one point you were going to be shooting a film at the trials and I was going to be possibly the professional person that you were, I don't know, using my credentials to give you credibility or something like that. That went by the wayside, unfortunately.

Olivia Schireson:

I wanted a Bridge-related internship where I could do an internship and also have maybe slightly more flexible hours than a usual internship. And I think an internship with the Education Foundation is just perfect for that, but I mean, I was expecting to play the trials for two days and then we ended up playing nine days. But literally, my last day of school was the day before trials. And I took an AP test, I took the AP physics test. Honestly, that test was murder. That test was the worst test I've ever taken in my entire life. It wasn't just me, they literally make the test so that you can't finish it in time.

They're just evil for some reason on that test. So I just take this absolutely brutal test. I go to the airport from school, fly to Chicago, land. I got to the hotel at maybe 1:00, or 12:30, I don't know. And this is AM. And I was just starving. I was like, I need to eat. I can't fall asleep this hungry. So I ordered food. I went to bed at maybe 1:30 or something, I don't know. And then the next day, Sam likes to play in the morning, so I just got up, played the morning sessions. So yeah, it was definitely an immediate transition for me, from school to the trials.

John McAllister:

Bridge pro. So tell us about your team, then. So there were 10 teams playing and you guys did a complete round-robin?

Olivia Schireson:

Yes. Every team played each other once.

John McAllister:

How many boards?

Olivia Schireson:

10 boards, so 90 board round-robin for the qualification. I was not so good in the round-robin. I don't know, I just hadn't really gotten into a rhythm. Especially, I feel like because I came right from school, just a bit of a harsh adjustment. And actually, well, I think we only played four matches in the round-robin or something. Maybe five. And I think we tied two and lost two. So I actually didn't win any matches in the round-robin, but it was smooth sailing from there out.

John McAllister:

But I remember looking at the standings in the round-robin and you guys, pretty close to the end, I don't think you guys were qualifying when I looked.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, no, we needed to win our last match and we needed ... Because we were in ninth place and we were playing the 10th place team, or maybe it was the other way around, but I'm pretty sure we were in ninth place. So we needed one of the teams in sixth or seventh or eighth to lose. Not lose huge, but lose. And we needed to win by a decent amount in order to qualify. It wasn't impossible, obviously, but it really didn't look like we were that likely to make it. And then we made it. And then we didn't really expect much, and we won a match, we won another match, we won another match. And all of a sudden it's one match away from going to Marrakesh. But I mean, against that Rosenthal team, I had absolutely no expectations for winning that match. But yeah, so it was a lot of fun. Definitely ended differently than it had started.

John McAllister:

I mean, you were there for nine days. I was there for two days playing with your dad. That was so frustrating. I got invited to play in the mixed, and I would've liked to, but I didn't want to go home and then go back to Chicago. So I could have changed history.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, I mean, you and my dad have had some pretty epic first round matches in the open. Unfortunately, you guys haven't had a second-round match in the open together yet but ...

John McAllister:

I've never won a match in the trials.

Olivia Schireson:

I mean it's a much tougher event than the mix. You guys played who? Fleisher?

John McAllister:

Last year we played Fleisher, this year we played Kevin and Brian Platnick and Bart and Kit, who were ... Bart and Kit were on Fleisher last year.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, I see. I mean those are both just super tough teams. And even just being right there with them for two days of Bridge is something definitely to be very proud of.

John McAllister:

Yeah. I'm tired of the moral victory. And even this year year, we were close through six segments, but there were eight segments and they pretty much blitzed us the last two segments. So it was ...

Olivia Schireson:

Come on, you got to be clutch.

John McAllister:

Yeah. The last segment was really a bummer because I told some people to watch and then I had a couple bad boards and ...

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, I think I remember you texted me, don't watch.

John McAllister:

Yeah, that's true.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

That's true. You were seemingly rooting for us.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, maybe just a little bit. I mean, that team is all my favorite people. I mean, I was also happy for Kevin Rosenberg, who I've known for pretty much as long as I've played Bridge. But Debbie Rosenberg, same with Kevin. I mean, I'm a huge fan of all the Rosenbergs. Hard to be a junior that grows up in the Bay Area and not be a huge fan of the Rosenbergs. And then Will Watson, he used to mentor me. Everyone here also loves Will. He's just super, super nice. He's a great player.

John McAllister:

That was my partner in the trials for those who ... Debbie was playing with Max, Olivia's dad, and I was playing with Will Watson.

Olivia Schireson:

So, hard not to root for my dad and three friends. But I was also very happy for Kevin, although I was maybe a little disappointed. Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah. It was sweet when we came in second in the BAM, I remember Debbie coming around the ending of the session to see what ... You could definitely tell that she was rooting for us. And it was cool. It's cool to be on a team that people are rooting for.

Olivia Schireson:

That's why you got to have me on your team more often.

John McAllister:

Yeah. I was on your website earlier today and I saw you won the Joan Gerard Sportsmanship Award at one of the Junior Championships.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, yeah. That was the Transnational Youth Championship this last summer in Italy. It was a lot of fun. I made a lot of friends and yeah.

John McAllister:

Do you know who nominated you for the award? Because I read that you can't be ... It can't be somebody from your country.

Olivia Schireson:

I honestly don't know. I made a lot of friends from different countries, though, because if I remember, most of the people from the US were playing in under 26. I was playing in under 21, so they were doing their own thing a little bit. I made friends, did my own thing a little bit, I guess. So I honestly don't know. But yeah, I mean ...

John McAllister:

How did you, results wise, in that tournament?

Olivia Schireson:

Bad. Yeah, we did not do so well. We didn't make it to the knockout stage of the under 21 and we played the consolation BAM. We had a good first day, but there was no carryover. It was just a cut line and then the second day was a little bit of a mess. So it was a little disappointing, but still, it's one of my favorite Bridge tournaments that I've ever been to. It was just super fun to meet a bunch of young Bridge players from around the world. I mean, we all love to play Bridge. At night, people would be just hanging out, playing Bridge. So I'm still really, really glad that I went and I had a great time, even though it would've been nice to do better, but that's okay.

John McAllister:

That's a cool award that you got. I've never been in contention for ... In any of the endeavors that I've participated in, I have never been in contention for the sportsmanship award. It seems like, since we played in Providence, it seems like, just my observation, is that you've gotten a lot more serious about Bridge. And I could be wrong about that, but were you already on track for that or am I right?

Olivia Schireson:

So I think I cared about being the best Bridge player I can be for a while, but I also sometimes struggle to get the best out of myself. So I think I've done a better job of getting the best out of myself since then. And that's probably contributed to me getting a little more solid. I mean, I'm still not as solid as I'd like to be, I'm always trying to improve, but I think that's probably a contributor. Even though I've always, not always, I actually didn't like Bridge when I first played it. But definitely for some time I've cared a lot about the game, but I think it's just been a matter of putting the pieces together. Yeah.

John McAllister:

I mean, I think before we played in Poland, you were doing a lot of Bridge Master problems.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. And I mean, Bridge Master problems are like ... They're good and they can help you learn how to think about some hands, but I just think they aren't necessarily the most practical in terms of just pure improvement. Because it's not that often that a Bridge Master level five actually happens at the table. And if you do 20 Bridge Master level fives versus if you do two, I don't know how much it's going to improve your chances of even getting it right. So I think probably more practical methods are just practicing board review, reading, and I think I've shifted more towards that than to just Bridge Master, which I used to do a ton.

John McAllister:

Well on Bridge Winners, currently the top article is about false card that you made in the mixed finals of the mixed trials. And also Dave Caprera, who's been a guest on the podcast, was very complimentary of how you played in the match versus them. So you're getting a lot of love on bridge winners, which has got to be... What's that like for you?

Olivia Schireson:

I don't know. It's a little, I mean of course it's nice, but it's also just a little, it's interesting. I don't know. I don't know how to explain.

John McAllister:

How did you find out about the Dave Caprera compliment first?

Olivia Schireson:

Well, Dave and I had talked a decent bit at trials. He lives in Colorado and I'm taking a gap year next year. But after that I'm going to Colorado College.

John McAllister:

Boo.

Olivia Schireson:

So we had talked at trials and played against each other. We were screen mates once, so I talked to Dave a bit and become friends with him and then saw his comment, which was nice. Yeah. So for the viewers and listeners.

John McAllister:

Thank you for being inclusive, the inclusive language. I appreciate it.

Olivia Schireson:

Yes. I don't want to leave anyone out, but basically the false card there was ace, king, fifth and the dummy and I was sitting over dummy.

John McAllister:

In a side suit.

Olivia Schireson:

In a side suit. And I declare, played a trick to the ace or king and I dropped the jack from queen jack third.

John McAllister:

And declare had ten, nine, doubleton I think too.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, something like that. I don't know, dummy, but dummy didn't have the eight, dummy had the seven. It was diamonds. I always remember the beer card. Anyways I felt bad for Amber because it was like the last round we were down by a hundred or something.

John McAllister:

Still playing.

Olivia Schireson:

Still playing. I felt a little bad that we were still playing because I know some people like to go to dinner, but I mean it's like we get to play Bridge, it's fine, we can play. It's fine. But I was just trying to play quickly. And I was not always awake during that set. I don't think I lit [inaudible 00:28:39] on fire or anything, but I wasn't, I was just playing pretty quickly. And so was Chris Willenken and I think Sam was playing probably a little faster than usual.

So then poor Amber was playing this slam and had to decide is this idiot who's been going just as fast as she can, pretty much all set, has she actually done something good? And not unreasonably, she decided no. So I just felt pretty bad for her, honestly, because people in the comments were talking about should she have gotten this right? And nobody knew the state of this match, because we were also screen mates. We were sharing a room. She knew I was, I was just having a good time, honestly. And so there was no way that she possibly could have played me for making an awake play.

So after the board, I felt bad. I was just like, sorry. Because in different circumstances she definitely could have gotten that right. But I genuinely think with this context, she made the right play and she was just doomed to fail because I remember thinking I was very lucky to have been awake in that moment because the rest of the match or the rest of that set of 15 boards, I was not.

But that's, for the viewers and listeners, we're talking about Amber Lin, she's a very strong player and she made a very reasonable play to fall for my false card there. But she's one of my closest bridge friends. And I mean, it was just super fun to get to also hang out with her for nine days. And I'm super happy for her that she's representing the US playing with Chris Willenken on the Rosenthal team. Yeah, which is a funny [inaudible 00:30:49].

John McAllister:

Did you know that Adam was writing this article?

Olivia Schireson:

No, I didn't. I didn't.

John McAllister:

So did you just see Honest Jack on bridge, the front? It's the number one featured article right now. Did you see it?

Olivia Schireson:

I saw it.

John McAllister:

Did you come by it innocently? You clicked on it, you're like, oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

I saw Honest Jack and I was like, oh wait, maybe. Because I know Adam had done a little bit of commentary on some of the boards and also this was pretty Sjoertly after the play had happened. Honest Jack has no other meaning than a false card with a jack.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. But I mean, wasn't sure until I clicked. But yeah, it was nice of him to write the article.

John McAllister:

That's got to be a nice feeling. I mean, maybe your point's well taken about the match not being in question at the time.

Olivia Schireson:

I mean, you are no stranger to also having bridge winner's article written about your false cards against a slam, a grand slam, actually.

John McAllister:

I think you're the only person who's ever written one. But yes, that was sweet.

Olivia Schireson:

That still might be the most incredible thing I've ever seen about at the bridge table. That's a play that you dream of. So for the viewers and listeners, when I'm with John in Poland, we were defending a grand slam at matchpoints that nobody else was going to be in. Nobody else was going to be in this grand slam. And it was kind of obvious when we saw the dummy. And declarer had ace and one opposite king, jack, nine and fourth. So Declarer needed two pitches from this suit. And the only way for Declarer to do this was either to drop queen-10, doubleton or stiff queen offside and then finesse the 10. And our boy, John, the host of all hosts, the host with the most, on this hand definitely with the most, he dropped queen from queen-10 doubleton behind the king, jack, nine, fourth.

So that Declarer pretty much had no choice but to finesse the nine into John's 10. And if he had just played the 10, then Declarer would have had no choice but to drop his Queen-10. Otherwise Declarer would know that they were for sure going down. And he just didn't even think about it. He just did it. That is my biggest dream in life, is to make a play like that. That was so incredible. It was literally an entire board. It was a complete top versus a complete bottom. This was 10 seconds left on the clock [inaudible 00:34:00]. Yeah. So I wrote an article about that and I posted it on Bridge Winners because I just think that that was so incredible. Yeah.

John McAllister:

We have, by the way, Andrew Robson did a thing on that. And so we'll put that in the show notes for, on the website so you can see all of it. And you'll see that I actually made a lead. So I preempted in diamonds and Olivia raised me and now they bid this grand slam and I didn't think, I was like, there can't be bidding a grand slam if they've got the king of diamonds here when we've bid and raised diamonds. So I led my ace of diamonds and now-

Olivia Schireson:

They can't be bidding a grand slam if you have the ace of diamonds and not one of them has a void.

John McAllister:

Yeah but they don't have a ticket. They're not bidding grand slam. Literally the auction was Polish. So pass, pass, pass, pass, Polish club. Now I bid three diamonds with a pretty good hand. And now lefty passed, I think, and you bid five diamonds?

Olivia Schireson:

I think it was four, but maybe not.

John McAllister:

No, I think you bid five diamonds and now the strong hand bid five hearts. Their partner raised to six hearts and now he did seven. And I had jack, what, I had jack fourth of hearts, six, four. No, I had jack third of hearts. Anyway, I thought there's no way I had ace, queen jack, six of diamonds. I thought there's no way they're bidding a grand slam and the king of diamonds is amongst their holdings. So I lead the ace and now the king appears in the dummy. And leading the ace was the only way they even had a chance. But it's good because then I got to make this false card.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, yeah, it all worked out in the end. So John, I just have a quick lesson for you.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

Which is that typically when the opponents bid a grand slam to make, they have good cards. So I have a question for you. Is the king of diamonds, would you say that's a good card or a bad card? I'm just messing with you.

John McAllister:

I guess-

Olivia Schireson:

I mean, yeah, no, I do understand your reasoning because I have to have something in my hand to be jumping. I'm probably not going to do that with terrible diamonds most of the time, unless I have maybe something outside. So I definitely do understand you're thinking, this card has to be somewhere. It's probably with my partner, not with them. And then today or that day, it was just your unlucky day until it was your not lucky.

John McAllister:

Exactly.

Olivia Schireson:

Incredible day.

John McAllister:

Exactly.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I almost jumped out of my chair. At first I didn't even quite realize what happened. I just saw that queen of clubs on the table and I was like, oh shoot, okay, Declarer is going to get all these pitches. Like, Declarer [inaudible 00:36:55]. Yeah. And then I saw the 10 and I was like, there's no way. There's no way. Yeah. Yeah. But we had a lot of fun in Poland. I remember we had a, our teammates were Adi Asulin. Wait, can we cut this out?

John McAllister:

We're not going to. No. No.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh my God.

John McAllister:

Come on. You got it. Ami.

Olivia Schireson:

Ami Zamir. Yeah. I was remembering his partner's name. Ami Zamir. Ami, for some reason if you're listening to this, I'm so sorry. Because I've also seen, I've seen Ami a bunch of times after that. We always say hi to each other. But anyways.

John McAllister:

This is the first time that somebody's asked for a cut and I'm like, no, sorry. No, overrule, overrule. And you are the person that I do not feel bad doing that with.

Olivia Schireson:

I'm sorry. Anyways. Anyways, so our teammates were Adi Asulin and Ami Zamir, both Israeli players, and they're both super fun, super nice people.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

I feel like now I have to say, especially Ami. No, that's nothing against Adi. I mean, they're both just the nicest people ever.

John McAllister:

Yeah, true.

Olivia Schireson:

And they're both so much fun. But one night we went on a boat, we were just walking, this was so random. We were just walking through boats [inaudible 00:38:58], and there was this small little party boat that was just taking people through tours around the river. And the driver was like, come on the boat. Come on the boat.

John McAllister:

I think Adi had found it. I think Adi had found it on the internet.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh really?

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

I thought we just walked by.

John McAllister:

No, I think she had researched it.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, okay. Well, anyways, we got on this boat and there was this, we think, I think we thought it was just going to be us at first or something, I don't know. But then this group of maybe five young, probably in their early twenties, Polish kids come, or I can't say kids. They're older. What am I saying? Kids Polish young adults.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Come on the boat. And they're all drinking, having a good time. And then we could do song requests. And I don't know if we requested or it just came up, but the Macarena came on. And anyone who has known me long enough knows that I am a sucker for the Macarena. I'm dancing. I don't know what dance moves to do. It doesn't matter the song I'm doing the Macarena.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Anyways, I think we were playing What are the odds? So for the viewers and listeners who don't know, what are the odds is, and you say enough... Okay, you have a dare. So let's say, okay, I'll do a dare now. John, I dare you to shave your head.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

What are the odds?

John McAllister:

One in 7,000.

Olivia Schireson:

Okay, so what's going to happen now is John and I are going to go three, two, one and we're both going to say a number.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

If we both say the same number, then John has to shave his head. I mean, I don't make the rules, it's just how the game works. If you have any respect for the game, then John is going to shave his head. So I guess now we have to do it for the viewers and listeners.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

Wait, I need to think. Okay, I got it. I have my number. This is the one. This is the one.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

One, two, or sorry, wait, three, two, one. 2,573.

John McAllister:

392.

Olivia Schireson:

Okay, so shockingly we did not say the same number. So John doesn't have to shave his head, but that's what we were doing on the boat. We were coming up with dares and we were saying numbers. And one of the dares was, what are the odds you go over there and try to do the Macarena with that group of Polish young adults that we have not talked to once and they're all doing their own thing? So I believe I did what are the odds? And I probably gave a two, probably just wanted to do it anyways.

Anyways, then I had to go to the Macarena with them and we find out that they're ballerinas and they have this show happening. So it was honestly a very memorable and kind of strange but awesome moment where one day you're just at home and the next day you're on a boat doing the Macarena with some Polish ballerinas. But that was, I feel like that was kind of our experience all throughout the tournament, John, where we were just doing random really fun things. Should we talk about the what are the odds game where I almost jumped into a lake?

John McAllister:

Yeah, yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

It wasn't a lake. It was a huge fountain.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Well, we were playing what are the odds before a session, and I'm young, I can be dumb sometimes. And sometimes maybe I don't manage risk enough, because for the dare of, what are the odds that you go and you jump into this massive fountain that's basically like a lake with all your clothes on. 15 minutes before the session of bridge with no change of clothes. I was just going to go back into the playing hall, just soaking wet, soaking wet. I don't even know if I would be allowed to play.

John McAllister:

What was the incentive though? Why were you willing to... Wasn't this around when we were with Sjoert and Barbara and we were-

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Were they somehow involved in that?

Olivia Schireson:

Well, John, the incentive is having respect for the game.

John McAllister:

Oh wait, were you just doing it to show off how what are the odds works? Is that why maybe?

Olivia Schireson:

No, for some reason I just felt like this what are the odds dare deserved 20. Which is just way, way too low for something like that.

John McAllister:

So chances are one in 20 that you're going to have to do it.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. And even then, I think that people tend to get it a little more than one in 20 because people know the random numbers that people try to do, the numbers that aren't so obvious, but then everyone always does them. And then, yeah. Anyways, Johnny over here, was it going to say his number and Sjoert-

John McAllister:

It was 19, I think.

Olivia Schireson:

I think it was 17. No, it was 19. It was 19. And he was really thinking about it. He was really thinking about it. He was looking into my eyes and thinking about it. And then Sjoert is like, I know the number she's going to say, I know the exact number. And he's like, John, come on. I need you to really think about this. Really, really think. And then John's like, okay, okay. So then now John starts to overthink it. John has decided he's going to go with 19 at this point. He's decided he's going to go with 19. But now Sjoert is making him overthink, overthink, overthink. And then you switch your number. And Sjoert was like, I know the number. He texted Barbara from the number to confirm that he knew the number. And we go three, two, one, I say, 19. And you said some other number. And Sjoert was furious. He was like, come on John, how could you? And you were so mad. You were like Sjoert, I had the number. So that's the story of how I almost came into the playing hall, soaking wet.

John McAllister:

But didn't we do what are the odds with Barbara where she was going to have to go in a trash can, get in a trash can or something?

Olivia Schireson:

I think she gave 5,000 for jumping into a trash can. Actually boost probably higher than that. But yeah, I remember that was maybe the most fun I've had at a lunch in between session.

John McAllister:

Yeah, that was a lot of fun. We're just BS-ing with Barbara and Sjoert.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

This is Barbara Ferm and Sjoert Brink.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

And they were playing together. Their team was in the, well, they ended up winning the mixed teams. And Barbara, I mean, she was just like, she's older, but she's a lot of fun. Sjoert is very funny.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah they're both super fun.

John McAllister:

This is not a good story, but we had a great time. Great memories of that. Sorry I can't convey it in more specific terms.

Olivia Schireson:

Well, you almost had to, sorry, I know we said it's not a good story, but you almost had to go to the head of the WBF and ask if you wanted to trade sweaters.

John McAllister:

Wait.

Olivia Schireson:

Do you remember that?

John McAllister:

No.

Olivia Schireson:

You were wearing a sweater.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

We saw the head of the WBF. He was wearing a sweater. And I said, John, what are the odds that you go over and ask him if he would like to trade sweaters?

John McAllister:

What did I give you for that?

Olivia Schireson:

I mean, you're not as brave as me. Probably 500.

John McAllister:

It's funny that you said, so my sister's having her wedding reception the beginning of next month. And it's funny that you asked about shaving my head for what are the odds? Because when they had the photos taken, so my sister got married during COVID, there was no fanfare or anything. And so they got dressed up and we had photos taken two years ago, and I had shaved my head for those photos. So I couldn't give you, I had to be very conservative with my what are the odds number here, because I hated having my head shaved in those photos. Sometimes I've shaved my head and I think I look good. This was not then.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

I don't want the viewers slash listeners to think that I'm a total wuss because if the what are the odds are something that I were willing to happen, I might make it more conceivable.

Olivia Schireson:

Sorry John. I just feel like we're not really including our listeners right now. So I would just like to contextualize that John's hair is super, super long. He has hairs, is pretty much down to his hips. And John is a really tall guy. So it's actually dyed blue.

John McAllister:

Oh yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Half of it is blue and half of it is orange. Huge Denver Bronco fan. John McAllister just has to show his love for his team. So for all the listeners there, I just wanted to include you here.

John McAllister:

So this is the first time that we've potentially had to move an episode because the guest went to prom last night. And how was prom?

Olivia Schireson:

It was okay. I go to a relatively small Jewish school, so all of our school dances end up having kind of a bar mitzvah vibe, including the prom. But I mean, I still had a good time. Yeah, it was fun.

John McAllister:

Do you think anybody from your school will listen to this podcast?

Olivia Schireson:

I told my friend. I slept at her house last night and I was like, sorry, I have to go film a podcast. No, I get teased by my friends all the time about bridge related stuff because honestly, the stuff that I say I have to go do is just like, it's just so ridiculous.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Other kids, it's like, oh yeah, family vacation or I don't know. Oh, I have a basketball tournament. Me, I'm like, yeah, I'm going on a bridge podcast. Yeah, I was doing commentary recently. I was like, yeah, I'm going to go on a Twitch stream to comment on a bridge match right now. So I definitely get teased by my friends, obviously lovingly. But this was sort of one of those moments where I was-

John McAllister:

Were you doing commentary on the match that you were playing in?

Olivia Schireson:

No, no. I was actually planning on doing commentary. But a quick secret for some people out there is that whenever Jan Martel asks someone to do something, but they're being able to do it is contingent on them losing, they always win.

John McAllister:

Oh.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. So, Jan, I think pretty much before every match was like, hey, can you do commentary for this one? Can you do commentary for that one? And I kept having to cancel on her.

John McAllister:

Wow, love it.

Olivia Schireson:

Because we kept unexpectedly winning. So maybe if, John, maybe if you had agreed to do commentary on the open. Sorry that's-

John McAllister:

Nobody's asking me to do commentary.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, come on. Why not?

John McAllister:

I know. It's annoying.

Olivia Schireson:

Do you want to do commentary together?

John McAllister:

Yeah, I'd love to do commentary.

Olivia Schireson:

All right. We can probably do tomorrow I think Jan is looking.

John McAllister:

I'm playing at bridge all day tomorrow. I'm playing, there's a regional in Richmond, which is an hour away.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, nice. Who are you playing with?

John McAllister:

I'm playing with a woman named Deborah Gardner who is, we are both on the District 6 Ed foundation board, and so we're friends through that.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, nice.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

You guys are both like my boss.

John McAllister:

No, no. This is the District 6 This is different from the ACBL Education Foundation.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Well that should be fun. Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. I'm always, I love playing bridge.

Olivia Schireson:

Really?

John McAllister:

Absolutely.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Playing in person at a regional ... Fired up.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I mean... There were too many years. There were two years too many, I think. If I remember it was two years where there was no bridge in person. So now, just being able to play again is such a breath of fresh air. Yeah. So I definitely feel you on that.

John McAllister:

You think your dad will listen to this conversation?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Probably. Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah. What about your mom or any of your siblings?

Olivia Schireson:

Honestly, I think maybe if my mom or dad sends this to my grandma... Shout out to Jill, by the way, if you are listening, Jill. Then I think my grandma would send it to the family group chat. So if that happens, then maybe my siblings will listen.

John McAllister:

Does your grandmother, Jill, play bridge?

Olivia Schireson:

No, but she likes to keep up on Facebook. If she sees me tagged in something bridge related, then she gets excited and she sends it to the family group chat. So shout out to Jill.

John McAllister:

Is Jill your mom or dad's mom?

Olivia Schireson:

Jill's my dad's mom. Yeah.

John McAllister:

Where does she live?

Olivia Schireson:

Super cool lady. She lives in Palm Springs. Yeah. Well, sometimes... She spends a lot of time in New York because that's where my dad's brother lives. So they have a granddaughter there. And then Palm Springs is not too far from here. They actually used to live in our house.

John McAllister:

In Palo Alto?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. So I've definitely been lucky to have grown up very close to Grandma Jill and Grandpa Peter. Yeah.

John McAllister:

Are those both your... Is Peter your dad's father?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

Yeah. I tried to teach Peter bridge. I don't remember why we stopped. Honestly, the answer is probably just he didn't like it. Yeah.

But he has a BBO account. He has a BBO account, if I remember right. I tried to get him on the site, but I mean, my uncle, he wasn't a professional basketball player or anything, but I think he was a walk on or almost a walk on for UCLA for basketball. So I don't know if that would qualify him for Bridge with Ballers. For those of you that don't know, John has a web series. But I'm literally... I am the perfect guest right now. I'm the perfect guest right now.

John McAllister:

And thank [inaudible 00:55:16] my stuff.

Olivia Schireson:

Normally when people go on stuff, they promote their own stuff. But I'm just like a walking publicity-

John McAllister:

Billboard.

Olivia Schireson:

Billboard. But John has a web series called Bridge with Ballers, where he tries to teach bridge to retired professional athletes. Yeah.

John McAllister:

A lot of what you just said is true.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, okay.

John McAllister:

I haven't actually... So I am in the midst of hopefully having my first guest. I haven't actually recorded an episode with an actual baller, but there's a guy named Chris Long who played in the NFL on two Superbowl winning teams.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh wow.

John McAllister:

And he lives in Charlottesville, where I live, where the University of Virginia is... Which we were hoping, the entire University of Virginia community, was hoping that Olivia would grace us for four years of-

Olivia Schireson:

Hey, take it up-

John McAllister:

...dedicated student hood and be part of our burgeoning bridge club here, and-

Olivia Schireson:

Take it up with the application readers, man.

John McAllister:

Every time we talked about this, you would say, "Oh, I just filled out the application for you. I had five minutes to spare and I filled out the application for UVA." Wow, great. I'm sure you really impressed them...

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

...with your varied resume.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. So I had maybe 10 minutes to write three essays, which is not the best use of time management on my end, I must admit.

John McAllister:

I was trying to get you and your dad to come to a UVA basketball game. I offered you tickets to the Duke game, to come visit Charlottesville to see what you're missing. And you're going to Colorado College where one of my best friend's brothers went to school.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh. Yeah, but I'm pretty excited for it. I definitely like to focus on one thing at a time. Because when I focus on multiple things at once, I find myself wanting to do one thing a lot and the other thing not so much. And then I procrastinate on the thing I don't want to do with the thing I do want to do.

So for some context, Colorado College has a special block program, where you take one class at a time instead of all your classes at once. So I think that'll be a pretty good fit for me to just be able to go one at a time. And then also, it's nice because I have some AP credits, which means I can take a few of the blocks off and then go to the nationals without missing any school.

John McAllister:

Oh wow.

Olivia Schireson:

My dad was texting me about that. He was trying to convince me that it was the place for me. And so he was telling me like, "Look, if you do this and this and this, you can go to all the nationals."

John McAllister:

What is the betting line in the Schireson house about you actually attending college? Because you're taking a gap year and you're going to be applying your trade as a bridge pro. So yeah. Will you speak to that question please?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. So this is actually a conversation I've had a lot of times because... So typically when you tell someone that you're making a decision, usually the reaction is like, "Oh, I think you'll really like that." And let's say somebody's trying to give you advice. "I'm not sure that you would have the best time doing that." Something like that.

But the reaction to what I tell people that I'm taking a gap year has overwhelmingly been, "I think you're going to like that too much. I think that's going to be too good of a choice for you. And I think that you're not actually going to... It's going to be gap years."

But I think that a lot of people that I've talked to probably think it's going to be more than one year. I mean, I would say it's going to be a maximum of two. I'm pretty confident, knowing myself, that I could say that. But I would say, me personally, I think it's like 80% one, 20% two. Because I definitely do want to go to college. That is something I want to do. First of all, I know it's going to be a ton of fun. Everyone pretty much at college is just super fun. And I definitely like learning things so I want to go and advance my education, I guess. I don't know.

John McAllister:

How involved in these conversations is your dad versus your mother? Because your dad knows bridge, plays bridge, whereas your mom is sort of not immersed in the bridge world in the same... nearly the like your dad is.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, I guess they're both pretty involved in the conversations. I guess in slightly different ways. My dad is more involved in the way where he's like, "Come on, you... please come to college. You can go to all the nationals." And my mom is more like, "I feel like that you'll like this college better than this one" type of deal.

I feel like my dad's a little more worried about the gap year problem. But I genuinely am planning on going to college. That is something that I very much plan on doing and am excited to do. I just think that... I mean, I really like to play bridge and I also want to learn and get a normal job and go to college. But I guess in high school it's been a bit of a struggle to do both at once and put all my effort into both. So I just think college will be a little more rewarding if I feel like I don't also have to be focusing on bridge as much. Because I feel like if I play bridge for a year and then I go to college, I'll feel like I won't really have lost time, if that makes sense. I don't know how to... I feel like I'll be better at focusing on college and it'll just be a better balance eventually.

John McAllister:

So when is your actual high school graduation? What day?

Olivia Schireson:

June something.

John McAllister:

You don't... How is it possible? In my high school, every Monday at assembly, two guys would get up and they would announce the number of days until graduation. They would say an exact... There are 251 days until graduation, and that was how the assembly would end. But I also went to a boarding school, an all male boarding school too. So it's not the same.

Olivia Schireson:

I go to a Jewish school and there's something called Counting the Omer, which is the days until the Omer. So...

John McAllister:

Is it Omer graduation or something else?

Olivia Schireson:

No, Omer is... I think it's the harvest. It's more, it's a traditional holiday, so I guess it's like origins from back when there was a harvest.

John McAllister:

Oh, there still is.

Olivia Schireson:

So I guess you had the counting until graduation. I had the counting of the Omer.

John McAllister:

You don't even know what day your grad... And by the way-

Olivia Schireson:

Okay, I'm finding out what day.

John McAllister:

How come I didn't get a graduation announcement? Normally you send those out to the people that are close to you, that you want to come.

Olivia Schireson:

This is actually awkward, but I don't... No I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I actually didn't know that that's a thing.

John McAllister:

Yeah, it's a thing. I mean it's basically, it's a money grab. It's a cash grab.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh really?

John McAllister:

Yeah. Sending out graduation announcements. Sure, of course.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, so is the idea there that you give me money?

John McAllister:

Yeah. You give something for graduating.

Olivia Schireson:

I got to go drop this off. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. I'll find the date and I'll send that to you.

John McAllister:

But the reason I ask is, so you've got a gap year. I mean, you're graduating from high school sometime soon, seemingly.

Olivia Schireson:

Very soon, yeah.

John McAllister:

Although your dad was worried that wasn't going to happen. You've managed to grad, you're on track, but -

Olivia Schireson:

[inaudible 01:04:10] No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

John McAllister:

How much of this gap year, what exactly do you... You're playing in the junior world championships. You're probably going to Chicago for the nationals. How much... What beyond that do you have set up?

Olivia Schireson:

Okay, first of all, graduation. June 11th.

John McAllister:

Boom.

Olivia Schireson:

Boom.

And to answer your question... There's a lot of tournaments that I want to go to. So my plan is to just probably live in New York or something because I have a lot of friends in New York. And I know historically the bridge scene has been good in New York. I know it's kind of-

John McAllister:

Right.

Olivia Schireson:

...taken a huge hit because of COVID, but I have family there, a lot of friends there. And I think it'll still be a good place to be a bridge player. So my plan is to live there, get a normal job. I don't know, maybe Starbucks or something. And-

John McAllister:

Why would you do that?

Olivia Schireson:

Because I don't...

John McAllister:

What about being a bridge pro? Why not be a bridge pro in New York?

Olivia Schireson:

Well, I get some work for bridge, but at least at this point I don't get enough where... I don't know how much I will end up getting. But we'll see, basically. If I feel like I need to work at Starbucks or something to supplement it, then I'll do that. But I mean, hopefully I won't have to. And I can just-

John McAllister:

Please let us know. And for the enterprising listeners/viewers, if we could maybe send somebody on assignment to capture Olivia taking their venti order, that would be worth it. We'd love to. We will do something to reciprocate if this happens. I am taking under on any employment that is not bridge related, just to... For the record here.

Olivia Schireson:

Okay. But if you ever want an Americano, you know where to come.

John McAllister:

But you're, who are you playing with? Are you playing with your under 21 team in the nationals?

Olivia Schireson:

I honestly don't know.

John McAllister:

What?

Olivia Schireson:

I think me and Michael had talked about some plans for that. I'm playing with... I don't know if... He's posted a bit on Bridge Winners. I don't know. Do you know Alan Frank?

John McAllister:

I recognize him from Bridge Winners. I don't know him.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, well he's a super nice guy. If Alan is listening, then shout out to Alan. I'm playing with him for the last three days, which I'm excited about. We played together for the last three days of the summer national last year. And he... Pretty much every time when we got to the table, everyone thought he was my dad.

Because there aren't that many young female bridge players. So it's not a bad guess that I'd be playing with my dad because I do play with my dad a lot. But this happened to not be my dad. Anyways.

John McAllister:

Are you playing the Swiss or are you playing the Pairs?

Olivia Schireson:

We're playing the Swiss. Anyways though... He had talked about how he should have a pin on his shirt for the next time we play that says, "not her father."

So maybe I'll get that pin made and I'll give it to him in Chicago. But I can be a bit of a last minute planner. I know there are people that like to have their plans a year in advance. And me, I just see what falls into place and it's worked out really well for me. The mixed team that we had was a little minute. Especially... We were supposed to have Bronia Jenkins, but she had bigger and better things to do, like run the ACBL. Which by the way, I think she'll do a really good job with. So then we had to do some moving around to get the team together in time and obviously that went pretty well. Our team was maybe the last most minute team I've ever been on.

John McAllister:

Our team?

Olivia Schireson:

In Providence.

John McAllister:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was pretty last minute.

Olivia Schireson:

It was the night before I got a text from Michael like, "Hey, you want to play?" And I was like, "Yeah." And he sent me 20 pages of system notes. Yeah.

John McAllister:

That is true.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Which you play... You knew it like a champ. How much do you and your dad play?

Olivia Schireson:

Honestly, we don't really... We don't really just play casual bridge together that often. Sometimes he'll have a training session and I'll join in on that. But it's not we're sitting down after dinner and playing bridge together. We definitely talk about bridge a lot though. We'll just send each other random texts about random hands. I know. At least I've been like kibitzing and interesting... I've been kibitzing the trials and interesting hands come up, so...

John McAllister:

Do you ever actually speak to your dad or is it just communication over text message?

Olivia Schireson:

Oh, it's like a chat. Chat GPT vibe. It's just a... No. Yeah, we do talk. But especially because I was gone for nine days, so we texted each other a lot of hands.

John McAllister:

Did you have your hotel room booked for nine days or did you have to keep adding to your room?

Olivia Schireson:

My dad booked it for all nine days and I told him he was an idiot.

John McAllister:

Strong. Strong move, Max.

Olivia Schireson:

I was like, why would you... Just book it for two and extend it.

John McAllister:

It's very easy. It's very easy to cancel it, honestly. The USBF does a great job with that. So that was a veteran move by your dad, but I love that you actually had... You stayed there for the whole time. That's so sweet.

Olivia Schireson:

I called him because he booked it for me, I checked in and they were like, "Oh yeah, nine days." And I called them, I was like, "Come on, don't be silly." And we ended up needing all nine days or not we, I. Yeah, glad it worked out like that.

John McAllister:

What happened? The Caprera match, you guys won... I mean, did you win it on the last board?

Olivia Schireson:

No. I think it was almost like that, but there were some time penalties that went against the other team. So I don't think it ended up being like that. I'm not sure.

John McAllister:

Oh, so if there were no time penalties, you would've won it on the last board? Maybe that's the difference?

Olivia Schireson:

I think. Yeah. It was a very close match. And then our next round was also a very close match. I think the Caprera one, we won by 10 or something. I don't know. It was actually the Pollack team. But we were talking about Dave, which is why we're saying Caprera.

John McAllister:

Right.

Olivia Schireson:

And the Lewis match, we won by like two, which is just like...

John McAllister:

Were you playing the last set or were you watching? How were you engaging in these close matches?

Olivia Schireson:

We actually didn't play the last sets, me and Sam. The first one against Pollack, I think our teammates were doing well or something and we were like, "You guys just keep going." And they clutched it up. Then the next time against Lewis, we almost played, but then we decided, "No, our teammates closed it out last time. Let's just give them the reins." We actually...in the Lewis one, we came in. There was a half day left to be played and we were down by 40.

John McAllister:

Wow.

Olivia Schireson:

So 30 boards, 40 IMPs. It's not impossible, but I mean obviously it's not a position you want to be in.

John McAllister:

Right.

Olivia Schireson:

So me and Sam played the morning and we came back 28 IMPs. So we were both feeling good. I know Sam really wanted to play. Because we had a good set. But we decided to trust our teammates because they had just done it two days before. We decided they were the clutch ones and they played the last one and came back. I think they won the last one by 14. So we ended up winning by two and then the next two matches did not come down to the wire as much.

John McAllister:

What were those comparisons like when you're winning these close matches?

Olivia Schireson:

We didn't really compare. Because we all saw on the LoveBridge tablets. I think it's probably-

John McAllister:

Oh, you would look at the score before you came out.

Olivia Schireson:

I honestly just can't help myself. I think most people just can't help themselves. But I think honestly, it's probably better for team chemistry for everyone to just wait and compare together. Maybe.

John McAllister:

Clearly not in this case though, cause you guys won. So everybody was looking at the LoveBridge and knew what the situation was.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, I think most people were doing that.

John McAllister:

On your team.

Olivia Schireson:

For those of you watching and listening who might not know, this tournament was played on tablets.

John McAllister:

Computers, actually.

Olivia Schireson:

Computers, yeah. Where there were two people in a hotel room, who were screen mates. So after the match you could kind of see the running score of the match.

John McAllister:

Yeah, right.

Olivia Schireson:

If your room finished first, then you couldn't see all the boards because they obviously hadn't all been played. But yeah... I can be a very nervous teammate honestly. I try not to show it to my teammates so much because I don't want them to feel like pressure. And I'm fine with whatever they do. I know my teammates will do their best, so I try not to make them feel any pressure. Maybe I accidentally do sometimes, but... I'm a very nervous teammate because I just like to play bridge. So I think I just tried to take naps during the last set when I could.

John McAllister:

Take a nap at seven o'clock at night.

Olivia Schireson:

I'm a huge... I wouldn't say I'm a supporter of naps because I feel like the way that I nap is maybe a little unhealthy. But I'm a huge fan of naps. Personal fan, I'll take naps at 10:00 PM.

John McAllister:

Who was the most fired up on your team as you guys are having this improbable run?

Olivia Schireson:

The most fired up?

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

I don't know. I think we were all fired up in our own ways. I was pretty fired up. I was just excited. Because at least at the beginning it was just like... We barely made it out of the round-robin. So now I'm just happy to be playing the knockout match and it's super close. And we barely make it out the knockout match. And we barely make it out of another knockout match. Then we make it out of another.

Honestly, I was not expecting to be in the position to even think of qualifying for the US. I was just really happy to be playing because I got to play a lot more bridge than I thought I was going to be able to, which is always nice. So I was just pretty fired up every time to get to play two more days of bridge. I think that was kind of the sentiment of the rest of the team. But as things got on, we're more like, "Oh my God, we actually are in this."

John McAllister:

Yeah

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Yeah. You were right in there. Absolutely.

Olivia Schireson:

Maybe not... Pretty early into the last match we were not in it. But I was just super stoked to have gotten it that far anyways.

John McAllister:

Do you think you guys were intimidated by that team?

Olivia Schireson:

Well, I really tried not to be. I think I was a little rusty... Or not rusty, rocky in the first segment out of 15. And then I remember being pretty happy with how I played in the second, and then after that it was fine. But I mean, it was pretty clear that it wasn't really going to matter pretty early in the match. We were down by over a hundred pretty early.

But anyways, I've grown up around the Rosenbergs for my entire Bridge life pretty much. And to me, the Rosenbergs are like gods. The Rosenbergs are just Bridge royalty to me. I mean, I'm close with the Rosenbergs, all of them, Kevin, Debbie, Michael, and it was really great to get to hang out with them so much at the tournament.

John McAllister:

They were rooting for you too, I'm sure. No serious. I mean, obviously not in the last match, but I'm sure they were rooting their faces off for you guys.

Olivia Schireson:

I mean, yeah, I remember Debbie was probably happier than I was after a few of our wins. But the Rosenbergs have just taught me so much about Bridge and just been such a massive influence on my Bridge life. And then to have to play a two-day match against Debbie and Michael, which is... I was very, very excited. But it felt kind of a surreal moment because I've played against him before, but never in...

John McAllister:

In something like that?

Olivia Schireson:

In something that felt more real where it wasn't-

John McAllister:

Like an elimination match.

Olivia Schireson:

And it wasn't just... I don't know if I have played them in some sort of national Swiss or something like that. Something where obviously they want to get a good result and they want to advance themselves in the tournament, but it's not win or go home. It's not like if they lose to us, they are not going to represent the US, and if they win, they are. So, I mean, for me, it was kind of surreal to be playing them in that context. Playing them, I realized, yeah, they are royalty. I mean, they're both very, very strong players. It's Debbie and Michael Rosenberg, obviously. Yeah.

John McAllister:

What was your dad during the run?

Olivia Schireson:

My dad. My dad was the most excited for sure, actually. Sorry, I don't want to go on my computer, but I'm just going to look in my inbox really fast. So see how many emails. Okay, that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. I could go on. But needless to say, there were a lot of emails that were very excited. That's another Max thing. He's a king of the email. We text each other stuff, but he also likes to just email me sometimes.

John McAllister:

What would he put in an email?

Olivia Schireson:

Here's one. The subject is, "Keep it up/good luck tomorrow." And then this is to Amber Lynn, who was also on the Rosenthal team, who I'm also very close with, Debbie, Michael, and me. "It was nice that you were both leading, but I liked it better when Olivia was leading by more." Stuff like that, he would just constantly be sending, and then actually when it looked like we could actually make it to the final, I think it was after we even beat the Lewis team, he was just so excited. He called me and he's like, "Would it be distracting if I came?"

John McAllister:

Wow.

Olivia Schireson:

So he wanted to come and be there in person to be there. But I told him that I would be happy to have him there, but at the same time it would probably be a little bit distracting. And that's not because I think my dad is a distracting person.

John McAllister:

No.

Olivia Schireson:

It's just because if you have someone that's there specifically to do nothing else-

John McAllister:

No, I think that's totally fair. Bridge is not really... It's a spectator... It's not like a basketball game.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, he totally understood and he was very nice. He's just very excited.

John McAllister:

That's really sweet though, that he-

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, yeah.

John McAllister:

... that he wanted to come.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. It was exciting. Yeah. Nice to do well sometimes. Yeah.

John McAllister:

You think you're going to stay after the junior tournament, the junior world? Do you think you're going to stay in Europe for a little bit?

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I mean, it ends a few weeks before Marrakesh.

John McAllister:

Oh, you think you're going to go to Marrakesh anyway?

Olivia Schireson:

I might play in the transnational-

John McAllister:

Sure, sure, sure.

Olivia Schireson:

... stuff. Because I mean-

John McAllister:

Why not?

Olivia Schireson:

If I'm not doing anything else, and I'm like-

John McAllister:

Absolutely. Playing the World Championships.

Olivia Schireson:

It's not in the area, but close enough to the area. I mean, at least for someone who lives in the US, it's a lot closer to be in the Netherlands and then to go to Marrakesh from there. So maybe I'll stay and play in Marrakesh. That would be super cool.

I mean, one of the huge benefits of being a Bridge player and taking gap year and getting to play in all these junior stuff and all that stuff is that I get to travel, not only travel the world, but travel places that I would not go to otherwise. Veldhoven is where the Juniors are going to be in. I'm super excited to see it, but I don't think I would've ever gone to Veldhoven otherwise.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

And I think Bridge not only gives you the opportunity to travel a lot, which is really cool, but it also gives you the opportunity to go to places that at least I would've thought of as being a little random. You get to be almost a bit more immersed when you're going to... I don't know how big Veldhoven is, but at least [inaudible 01:24:58] is kind of a small place. And you really get to immerse yourself, I feel like a little more when you're not just going there to visit, but you're going there to exist and do your thing, play Bridge.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

You think your siblings... How much do you think that they get it, how much you enjoy Bridge, how important it is to you? Do you think they just totally miss the boat on that? Or you think that they can... I mean, it would be hard to appreciate, I think, if I were in their shoes, for example.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Well they've seen my dad kind of fall in love with the game before I did. So I think that made it maybe a little less weird to them. I'm sure it was very weird when my dad was first starting to play and he really, really loved it. Like, "Oh, okay. Our dad is now obsessed with this random card game." But I mean, I think they both understand how important it is to me. My sister played a little bit of Bridge. Actually, no, not a little bit. Specifically one hand. She bid and made five diamonds, which is like no walk in the park. I mean, 11 tricks when you're playing your first hand of Bridge is a lot.

John McAllister:

Wow. That's very impressive.

Olivia Schireson:

And then she decided it was not for her.

John McAllister:

How the hell did she even know to bid to five diamonds, playing her firsthand? She must have had some helpers.

Olivia Schireson:

I think my dad maybe was like, "Oh, your hand is pretty good and you have diamonds, and five diamonds gets a big score." That was probably what happened there.

John McAllister:

Great Max impression, by the way. Stellar. Stellar impression.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Anyways, she's the only Bridge player to have never gone down. Yeah. And also six diamonds always makes. You know the saying. But five diamonds-

John McAllister:

Bart Bramley has that on his convention card. He has six S... I think it's-

Olivia Schireson:

SDAM.

John McAllister:

S-D-A-M on convention card.

Olivia Schireson:

But I mean, five diamonds is no walk in the park though. It's not FDAM, it's SDAM. Yeah. And my brother, he used to play some junior tournaments. He was never that serious about it, but I mean, he enjoyed playing. He was always a more casual player. And he actually, sportsmanship awards run in the family, because he actually... This is such a ridiculous story that I'm about to tell.

John McAllister:

All right.

Olivia Schireson:

But he won the sportsmanship award at the Youth Nationals in Toronto. That was probably like 2017 or something, I don't know. Oh, wow.

John McAllister:

Yeah, that was 2017.

Olivia Schireson:

Anyways, he was always just very goofy at the table at that tournament. I think his opponents generally had a good time, but it wasn't anything... Okay, wait. I don't know.

John McAllister:

This is your big story. You texted me about this story. I knew it was coming. I mean, I wasn't wanting you to tell it necessarily or not when I asked the question, but I knew when you were leading up to this that you were going to tell this story, and now you don't even...

Olivia Schireson:

No. The problem right now is what I'm trying to say is that my brother was nice and funny at the tournament, but he didn't do anything that you would kind of expect a bunch of people to nominate him or vote for him for the sportsmanship award, but I'm trying to say that without trying to say my brother's like an asshole or anything.

John McAllister:

Okay.

Olivia Schireson:

'Cause he's not, he's a super, super nice guy, but he just didn't meet that many people, so you wouldn't expect him to win something like this. But basically, the directors went up at the end of the Youth Nationals for the award ceremony, and there's all these trophies, but the biggest one, it's this sportsmanship trophy. It's just like... It's huge. And they go up. And normally what happens, if you've been to as many Youth Nationals as I have, you know what happens is the directors take nominations and then they put, I think, the top three most nominated people or something like that on a little ballot. And you can vote for who you want to win. It's been quite the contentious award over the years. Actually, the one year there was a girl who campaigned for it. I probably shouldn't say that. Anyways.

John McAllister:

Did she get it?

Olivia Schireson:

No. I think that year Darwin won. But anyways, the director goes up and gives a very heartfelt speech: "Normally we have nominations for this award, and we have a voting process. But we just heard a story that was so heartfelt that we decided to go around that, because as the directors, it is still our discretion to choose who wins the award.

"And so we actually decided to skip the voting because we heard a story of there was a crying junior, and he was really upset about himself for how he had been doing. And he was really upset about a play he made. And this individual took him aside and he cheered him up, and he told him, 'It's okay. It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes.' And he made him realize that it's okay. And then he got him laughing, and by the end of the round, the kid was at the next table laughing, having a good time. And that story was so touching. So we want to give this sportsmanship award to Jacob Shearson."

I wish I could tell you the look on my brother's face, but I actually can't because he wasn't there. 2016. How old was I? So I was like 12.

John McAllister:

17.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. And we didn't even make it to day two of the Youth or the second session.

John McAllister:

Jacob was your partner?

Olivia Schireson:

No, I was playing with Miranda Skyler. We didn't make it to the second session of the Youth pairs or something-

John McAllister:

Actually, I was at the ceremony in Toronto for the... No, I was. I remember that now. I forgot about that.

Olivia Schireson:

But my brother, he went with my dad to get sushi. They skipped the ceremony because I mean, we hadn't won anything. I definitely was never going to, at that point, win any event there. And my brother didn't win any event, and neither of us had made that big of an impression to win the Sportsmanship award or anything. But they call him up, and I'm 12, so for me, this was the biggest moment of my life. I was like, "Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. My brother just won the sportsmanship award at the National Bridge Tournament. Oh my God." I was losing my shit... Losing my marbles.

And actually at that point in my life, I didn't have a phone yet. I had a little... It was almost like a phone, but it couldn't make calls, so it was pretty useless. And so I was trying to call my brother. So I was like, "Can I have someone's phone? I need to tell my brother this is happened. I need to tell him. He needs to know." So then I'm making this whole scene and I'm like, "Jacob, Jacob, Jacob, Jacob. You won the Sportsmanship award. Oh my God."

And he still makes fun of me to this day of how crazy excited I was when I called him. So him and my dad are like, "Oh, shoot, there's an award that's waiting for us. And we're like, not there." So they run back through the streets of Toronto to come get this award. And then after I'm like, "Jacob, that was so nice what you did for that crying boy." And he's like, "What?" Actually, what happened was Jacob Freeman had comforted this crying boy and cheered him up and done all of that. And the directors heard about a Jacob who had done that. So they thought it was Jacob Schireson So now they make this whole big scene to congratulate the wrong Jacob.

John McAllister:

Oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

They went around the vote...

John McAllister:

Oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

They were like, "We're not doing the polling process, we're doing something special this year for..." actually what happened to be the wrong person. And then when it was sorted out, they ended up splitting the award. I think my brother put it on his college apps because he still did win it. Whether he meant to or not, he did win it. Yeah. But I still can't believe that happened.

And literally for some context, at that tournament, I went swimming with my brother and his friend. And also being 12 years old, I didn't have a swimsuit, but I didn't care. I just jumped in in shirts and shorts. Or a shirt and shorts. I don't know what I...

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Whatever. I just jumped in in my clothes. And then I got out and I was like, "Okay, can I go back to your room to get in a towel and maybe change or something?" 'Cause my brother and his friend were staying in their own room. My dad and I were staying in our own room, and he said no. And my dad was playing, so he left me soaking wet.

John McAllister:

The winner of the Sportsmanship award.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I was sitting outside of my hotel room waiting for my dad for an hour, just like-

John McAllister:

Oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

... soaking wet on the floor.

John McAllister:

You didn't have your own key?

Olivia Schireson:

No, because I was also 12 and really dumb.

John McAllister:

Oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

And I also didn't think to go to the front desk because I was embarrassed because I was soaking wet.

John McAllister:

Right, right.

Olivia Schireson:

So yeah, that's Jacob Schireson of the Sportsmanship award.

John McAllister:

I actually haven't heard that. I guess you have told me that story before.

Olivia Schireson:

Oh.

John McAllister:

Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

I think I have heard that story before, but that's for our listeners and viewers.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Don't forget the listeners, yeah.

John McAllister:

We are just burying that joke just to the grave, that joke.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Yeah.

John McAllister:

So when do you think you're going to move to New York?

Olivia Schireson:

I think probably after the Juniors, because I mean, I have tournaments pretty much all throughout July. I might or might not go to the Long Beach Regional, but I can drive down. It's a long drive, but it's not so hard for me to go there, so I'll probably end up going to that one. And if that happens, I'll literally be at Bridge tournaments for the entirety of July. And then August, I go to Juniors, and then potentially Transnationals in Marrakesh. So I mean, if I end up doing that, then it wouldn't really make sense for me to move before that and then just be gone for two months.

John McAllister:

And I saw you're playing the mix with a French person who I don't know, in Strasburg.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I'm just trying to go to as many Bridge tournaments as I can.

John McAllister:

Are you planning to open as well there?

Olivia Schireson:

No, I have grad.

John McAllister:

Oh, you have to come back for graduation.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Unlucky.

John McAllister:

Right, right.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. I mean, a solution would just be to not graduate, and then I could play the open.

John McAllister:

You don't have a great offer. The offer's not good enough for the open yet.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, though. Yeah, he's a French Junior, super nice kid, good player. So should be fun. I feel like one thing that I should just mention, because this feels like a very John and Olivia story, it's not long.

John and I, we were in an airport shuttle to go from the plane to the airport, and this was honestly probably the most embarrassing moment I've had in public. I mean, because I think at this point, the bus was stopped. It wasn't even moving. And this is a super crowded bus. You don't want to move the wrong way to bump people. And I just face-planted. I don't even know what happened. I just entirely face plant.

John McAllister:

Did you fall on your face?

Olivia Schireson:

Well, I didn't actually, but it was pretty much the equivalent of a face plant.

John McAllister:

Oh my God.

Olivia Schireson:

I pretty much just fell... If you remember, I fell to the ground because I had two backpacks. I had a backpack on both sides. And I guess I-

John McAllister:

I feel like you fell on your behind. I didn't feel like you fell on your face. I thought you sort of collapsed on-

Olivia Schireson:

Okay.

John McAllister:

Yeah, face plant is different.

Olivia Schireson:

So for those of you, I'll say, for the consumers of this episode...

John McAllister:

Thank you.

Olivia Schireson:

We'll roll the tapes and we'll make sure to get this in the podcast notes. But yeah, I mean, it's not a super important story, but I just feel like I need to remind us of the fact that that happened.

John McAllister:

It was a fun trip. You were lot of fun to... It was gutting not to qualify for the teams, but I really enjoyed the time we had together over there.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, no, it was super fun. Actually, remember when you tried to convince this guy that I was your daughter, so that I could get into some airport lounge?

John McAllister:

Oh, I don't remember that.

Olivia Schireson:

Okay. We don't need to have that in there.

John McAllister:

I mean, it's legit. I mean, you could definitely... Yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. No, I remember because they had those big fancy bottles of water and like-

John McAllister:

Oh, right.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Huh.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah.

John McAllister:

Are you on a team for Strasbourg, or are you just playing pairs? I just saw you in the pairs. I didn't know how to search the teams. There are all these random team names, but I could search for your name in the pairs easily.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah, I'm only playing the pairs, which is a little weird, but...

John McAllister:

Oh, that's a bummer.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyone who's playing the teams, it's not a bummer for them. That was a weird thing to say.

John McAllister:

Because you'll be wrecking people on the teams.

Olivia Schireson:

That was like what I intended to say. Yeah.

John McAllister:

There you go. There you go.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, confidence in Bridge is everything. No, I'm kidding.

John McAllister:

And then it actually sounds like you're saying confidence and not the other thing. It sounded like your-

Olivia Schireson:

Confidence.

John McAllister:

Confidence, yeah.

Olivia Schireson:

Yeah. It's okay. We'll work on that. We'll work on that. Yeah. The two Cs, honestly. Honestly, confidence and confidence are, I think, probably up there for the most important things...

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