This week's episode of the Setting Trick podcast features Tom Hanlon, an accomplished bridge player with a remarkable track record in the game. One of his favorite bridge memories is winning the European Silver Medal in 2006, a significant achievement that highlights his skill and dedication. Tom has formed a strong partnership with Hugh McGann, a regular bridge partner who shares his passion for the game. Together, they have built a successful collaboration, leveraging their skills and strategic thinking to achieve notable results. Overall, Tom Hanlon's bridge journey is marked by his passion for the game and consistent pursuit of excellence continues to make him a respected figure in the bridge world.
During today's discussion, Tom talks about the global bridge discussions, where he exchanges ideas, shares insights, and collaborates with players worldwide. Also, Tom navigates the trials of decision-making and shares valuable insights into compelling gameplay. Tom shares his experiences to gain a deeper understanding of the strategic elements that drive success in the game.
Moreover, Tom reflects on his favorite tournament experiences, reliving triumphs, challenges, and personal growth moments. Lastly, discover the power of friendship and partnership as Tom celebrates many years of collaboration with his trusted bridge companion.
[01:32] Tom's Nickname: The Story Behind Tom's Nickname
[07:14] Bridge Adventures: Partnering Up and Chasing Success
[08:38] Bridge Bonding: Coffee, Conversations, and Learning Through Play
[10:22] Global Bridge Discussions: Exchanging Ideas and Solving Problems
[12:14] The Trials: Bidding Strategies and Logic in Bridge
[18:36] Bridging Passions: Tom's Favorite Tournament Experiences
[20:19] Fostering Friendship and Success: Years Old Partnership
Connect with Tom:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tom-hanlon-88822a82/?originalSubdomain=ie
Quotes
The bridge is a game of opinions. People have their own opinion. Even if it is wrong, it is not going to be that wrong.
We all answer at different speeds. Some great guys give long, detailed answers. Some of the rest of us give one line or two lines, stating the answer and explaining why.
It needs all the stars to be aligned and for the six players in the team to be available and free to play at the same time and committed to whatever company yours that you needed to play in a tournament and prepare for a tournament.
The bridge is tough, especially in tournaments, because it is all about strategy.
The bridge is such a high level of discussion now. It is discussed way more now than ever. You play it purely on skill.
Transcription:
John McAllister:
Hi, this is John McAllister, host of The Setting Trick and I'm very excited to share this reworked conversation with Irish star Tom Hanlon. When we originally published this episode, we mistakenly only published the second half of the conversation and there were several instances where our audio was out of sync. I want to apologize to Tom and to our listeners for not having done it correctly the first time. I hope you'll give us a second chance. This was a really fun conversation, and it was a challenge to get some of the audio synced back up, but I think we've done a pretty good job. If you hear something in the audio that sounds like it's out of sync, your ears might not be deceiving you, but for the most part I think we got it fixed. And I also want to thank Georget Sinsarma and his daughter Shruti for helping us with that editing process. And I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
So I am here with somebody I'm really excited to have on this podcast. He is the leading bridge player in Ireland. He's got a great sense of humor. Tom Hanlon.
Tom Hanlon:
Hi, John. Thanks for having me on the show.
John McAllister:
It's my pleasure, Tom. And in doing some research about you, I came across this quote which says, you said, "Playing bridge doesn't feel like work to me."
Tom Hanlon:
That's true. It does definitely doesn't. When I get, my girlfriend, when I want to get her going and I heading off to the states or off to Vegas or off to wherever I'm going traveling the world, I'd say, "Listen, I'm off to work now." And she goes, "You're not off to work. You're not off to work." Because she knows I've been somehow managed to be able to turn my hobbies into my working life. So it's a neat trick to be able to do that, and one that I'm very lucky to be able to do that, and manage to make a living out of it at the same time.
John McAllister:
So you're a professional bridge player, you play in the States with Leslie Amoils, and you guys... I go back to a conversation I had with you in Italy, in Montecatini, at the European championships in 2017. I remember we were sitting next to each other at lunch or something and my partner had bid over a strong notrump in the pass out seat. My partner had bid 2 clubs and she was vulnerable and her opponents were not. And I had, I think, a hand with 6 diamonds or something and I ended up bidding us up to 3 diamonds because I didn't want to play in my 5-2 major fit. And you were critical of me for that because you're like, Your partner has to have 5-5 in the majors to be bidding vulnerable. Because you have a pretty good hand, you know that your partner has distribution to be bidding in this situation." And you were right, and we got a very bad score on that deal.
And I just appreciated, this is something about bridge, I think, that one of the great things about the game is being able to talk to other players, better players about your decisions you're making and get their feedback. And so that left an impression on me. And then fast-forward to New Orleans, I got to the quarterfinals of the main event, the Vanderbilt, for the first time, and I see you on the last day of the tournament outside of the playing site before play is about to begin and you're very complimentary of my improvements and that we had this great result in the tournament. And then you and Leslie, we play you I think in the first round of the Swiss that afternoon, and you... I'm just horrible. I am so bad. And so...
Tom Hanlon:
That wasn't a tactic or anything like that. I really love to see guys that are putting stuff into the game and trying to improve, and you're one of those people, you definitely have improved a lot over the last few years. The first time I met you, you would've been that little bit greener. But you've learned and you've shown very steady progress to improve over the years. So that's lovely, and that's what players try to do no matter how good you are. I'm the same myself, I'm hoping to be a better player next year than I am this year. And one of the biggest and easiest way to improve in the game is to learn from other people. I'm lucky enough to hang around with, when I'm in the states, with a lot of very good bridge players. I'm very close friends with Brad and Thomas Bessis and Joe Grue and Vince Demuy and [inaudible 00:04:54], and people like that.
And we hang around, we have dinner together and we hang around at night, maybe we're having a few beers, but we're always talking about bridge and everybody's contributing, everybody's got their ideas. It's amazing how the best player can improve a lot in that environment, because they're always coming up with new little bidding sequences that should mean little slight improvement on what they're already doing. So it's a very exciting environment to be around, especially in the states. And it's a great pleasure to be able to play a bridge like that and hang around with your friends and learn from them as well. And sometimes you might teach them as well. So it's all about sharing information, that's what makes it such a friendly and pleasant game.
John McAllister:
How does it work with those guys? Can you give me an example of a situation maybe, that you talked about, where you learned something from them in New Orleans? Or where you suggested something, maybe somebody did was suboptimal? How much grief is involved when people... Are you worried that you're going to get made fun of?
Tom Hanlon:
No, no, no. Well, if they're making fun of you, you know they're not really making fun of you. It's when they're saying nothing and just going, "Oh yeah," that's when you know probably made a idiot of yourself. But we always have very healthy discussions, never any rows, because every single person respects the other person's opinion. And I think every single one of those guys are willing, and do learn, from each other. The egos aren't there. We're all delighted and excited when somebody comes up with a new idea about a certain way of bidding. And whether it's 2-over-1, especially when you have so many different combinations, when you can take your time so much in 2-over-1. I'm alien to 2-over-1, because that's not my background.
So I've learned the most of everybody on 2-over-1, because it's the influences you can give about the slowness, you bid a contractor, when you go through 2 notrump. And it's just all a world of information and it's very good to share these ideas with other people. I think you're talking about the play and defense as well. Everybody has their own opinions on opening leads of when to be aggressive, when not to be aggressive. And all these discussions are very helpful to my bridge game, and I'm sure everybody else's that's involved in it.
John McAllister:
There was a hand where I doubled Brad in 3 notrump and his partner Joe Grue redoubled, and I had King-Queen-10-9-8 of spades, and you made the joke that if my partner had the Ace-Jack of spades it would've been a good double.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, well, sorry, I was maybe being a little bit smart but I was just trying to make a point, because that's about the only time a spade lead would be needed to beat this contact. Because you've no entry, and you're really looking at one [inaudible 00:07:45] trick. Even if your partner is Ace-1, and is Jack 5th and dummied, you're still holding four tricks. Put it like this, I think Joe redoubled and Brad pulled it, and they could have stuck at a +2. But I think they were well up in the match at that stage and it was probably close to the end and they didn't want to have a big accident. If it was in a normal match situation, I believe you would've been left on 3-notrump redoubled, and you would've lost 1350 or 1750, or whatever. Those couple of over tricks are redoubled. So again, you knew you wanted a spade lead and you doubled for a spade lead, but it was still, you needed to have at least an Ace outside for it to be profitable.
John McAllister:
Did this hand, the reason I'm asking about it is not to highlight my mediocre bidding, but did that hand come up in the chatter?
Tom Hanlon:
Sort of did, you see, because obviously though, from the bone, we certainly all have no problem taking the piss out of each other as well, and flagging each other, and making fun of each other in lighthearted ways. The conversation probably would've started off me asking Joe, "Do you know..." Or me saying to Brad, "Did you not know the score for 3-notrump, 3 hold [inaudible 00:08:57], +2? Is that why you pulled it? You didn't know how to fill out the score?" So we would've had a good laugh about it, of course, and Brad would be the first to laugh about it as well. Because we all see our own mistakes, and we're always the first ones to point them out. And I'm not saying that was a mistake on Brad because the state of the match, he didn't want to just go for a 1,000, and he knew the match. All he needed was not to have a couple of disasters.
So I think that's what happened. But at least he got them to run from 2-notrump, which was definitely making. And he fell in 5 diamonds, I believe, which had a little bit of play to the contract. So certainly wasn't gold. I think your partner switched to King of clubs at some stage later on, and it wouldn't have mattered the way the light of cards, but if you'd had a Club, King or Queen, it might've made it more interesting because the show up squeeze mightn't have been apparent if that were the case. So he had no problem making 5 Diamonds anyhow. But that was a fun discussion that evening.
John McAllister:
Brad is, so today we're recording this conversation on May 7th, and Brad is in the first day of the finals of the US team trials. Have you been watching that?
Tom Hanlon:
I watch in and out. I find myself busy, probably not doing a whole lot, but busy and only watching some of it. And I'll try and watch a good bit of it now tonight. It's on today and tomorrow, I presume? Yeah, so I'll try and watch a bit today and I'll watch a lot tomorrow. I think I'm a bit freer tomorrow, but I wish him the best in final. It should be a great final. It's exciting for everybody. I'm already going to Marrakesh as part of the Irish team who qualified for the Bermuda Bowl, which was obviously a great result for a small little island, and we're certainly hoping to see lots of my friends there. No matter which teams wins, there'll be a lot of friends on either team that represents America. It should be good fun.
I have to probably cheer on Brad and Joe a little bit more than anybody else. Well, and Mark, because I played on Mark's team for the last four nationals. We had a great time. We never did worse than a quarter-final so it was a pretty successful venture. But Joe and Brad are now joining myself and Les for the next cycle in the nationals. So looking forward to playing with them from Chicago on. So I have to bat for them in the final.
John McAllister:
Is that a four-person team or are you going to have another pair?
Tom Hanlon:
No, we're having another pair. Two young Israeli guys, we're playing on the Tagoran [inaudible 00:11:33] team, are joining us. Two lovely lads. Amir is one, I know. I'm terrible at... And the two are very nice guys. So looking forward to playing with them on the team as well. The night staying [inaudible 00:11:44] with them in New Orleans, just getting to know each other. And we had a great time, and they seem like two very nice guys, know what they're doing at the bridge table. Hopeful that the next cycle will bring at least a final, if not a title.
John McAllister:
Yeah, that's a good team, man.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, looking forward to it.
John McAllister:
Any insight into how come Les has all of a sudden gone for the 27 Yankees here?
Tom Hanlon:
Well, if you remember, for the last four events we've played with Marty Fleisher and Chip Martel, Thomas Bessis and Cedric Lorenzini, which, not a bad team.
John McAllister:
Yeah, true.
Tom Hanlon:
And we got to three quarter finals and a semi-final, which wasn't a bad return. The semi-final was obviously painful considering we were almost 15 up going into the last quarter, and lost it. But that's the life. So we're hoping to meet the Fleisher team in the final of at least one event next year, and whoever wins, it'll be the loser will buy the champagne.
John McAllister:
Who did you lose to?
Tom Hanlon:
We lost to Ish, the team that won it. Ish and Finn and Simon Cope and Kevin Rosenberg. It was obviously great performance by them but it was very difficult and very heartbreaking to lose that lead in the last quarter. We were certainly looking forward to playing in the final and hopefully winning it. But we need to tighten up the four quarters in these tournaments, that's when they're won and lost. And we seemed to had a few very close matches in quarters and semi-finals and lost out in the last quarter, so just trying to work on that for the future.
John McAllister:
Were you and Les playing the fourth quarter of that match?
Tom Hanlon:
No we weren't. I don't know if it would've even made a difference, because they make a lot of decisions, aggressive actions, and they all worked out. And we might have reacted the same way in the boards that were given, so it was nobody's fault. It was just obviously even worse... Well, I don't know whether it's worse watching it happen or sitting there while it's happening and playing. But maybe you're not realizing how bad it is when you're sitting there playing. It's still quite a lead to surrender, so you have to be bad at both tables to lose that lead. But anyway, every match is like... We played in the most recent nationals, we played in round of 64 and we were seated 6 or 7, I think. And we played against the Korean team, six young lads, and they were like... It'd be a tough match in the round of 8 or 16, nevermind a round of 64, we squeaked home and that we turned over a massive three-quarter way deficit.
So nobody has a right to win any match anymore because, maybe we're only coming back from the pandemic, but I'm telling you, the American nationals, the strength and depth of those tournaments is tremendous. There's no easy match from day one, basically. You could get a lucky draw where you've got four tourists that really have no chance, but you have so many teams from Europe and from Asia that are not getting the seating points, their ability merit, and any team can lose to any team in any round. That makes it such a great event, and so deep.
John McAllister:
Who were you playing with in the US Nationals before you were playing with Leslie?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, my very first partner was legendary Mike Moss, Brad's father. Because I got a call, I think about, I was playing in... It must be about 16 or 17 years ago, maybe more, I got a call from Brad to say would I be any interest in playing. Because at that stage I wasn't really doing the American scene because I was still working and playing a lot of poker. And I was playing with my Irish guys, we were playing a fair bit. So to commit to playing in the States was, it was going to be a big undertaking. At that stage I was going in on, what you might call, entry level fee. We played for, I'm not sure how long, maybe one and a half cycles, two cycles with Mike. We had some great results. I think, we'd finalled the Reisinger twice, finishing 4th or 5th both times, or maybe 4th and 6th, or something like that.
But getting to the final both times, getting to, might be completely inaccurate, but certainly top 10 in a few of the pairs' events, like the Blue Ribbon and the Plate's, some great results. Brad always told me if I survived playing with his dad, was a tough man to play with, but at least... And the opponents, it was always a dog fight against you no matter what opponents we were playing. It was always, somebody had history with Mike, it was always an edgy affair. But he was a great competitor. He didn't apologize for it, he was a very good competitor. And I played with him when he was very, very old and not terribly healthy. So he was the first guy I played with in the States. And then after that I had a few different partners.
I played with Les a bit and I played with Cedric Lorenzini for a cycle, in different events. Then I played with Brad, on Les' team, different incarnations of it with Les or Brad. J. Lall, I played a few times with on the teams. I played on the Street team with Cedric. Played one or two other teams, I can't remember exactly now. I started playing with Les quite early on, maybe at least 10 or 12 years ago. So myself and Les, we're like a married couple. We find it hard to live with each other but we certainly can't live without each other, and we seem to play well together. We get the most out of each other and we've actually put a lot of work into it in the last 12 months. We're doing a lot of online training, bidding practice now, which was never my forte to put in that much effort into the bidding. I was learning 2-over-1. I was more into taking tricks, type of system, getting the carding right. But there's room for both.
So a lot of work, and it makes table action easier because you have more confidence in knowing what each other will do with certain hands. So yeah, I feel myself and Les have definitely had a strong last 12 months and looking forward to the next cycle and going deep with the new teammates, who I think are going to be... It's going to be a very enjoyable team and looking forward to it.
John McAllister:
You and Les seem well suited for each other.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, we are, yeah. We hang out, we're friends. First and foremost we're friends, we chat, we talk. Les is not the most straightforward man to get on with, unless you in his inner circle. And we all would be, so we all get on very well. And he actually joined us, for the last few nationals we've shared a villa or a house. We used to always just get the hotels but now, and we're all the same sort of friends, with Thomas and Irene, Thomas Bessis and his lovely Irene. Les joined us this time, and he had a great time. Especially with the new times, the Nationals, they finished it before 8:00, so you can get home to the villa. And Irene loves cooking and she's a fantastic cook, and we have nice Italian pastas or glass of wine, chocolate with the hands, and you've had a great night and it's only 11 o'clock. And you're not wake staying up till four o'clock in the morning and getting more tired and more tired every day. So I think it's a big improvement anyway, personally. And I thought it wouldn't be.
John McAllister:
Are you going to lose Irene's cooking now that Thomas is no longer on the team?
Tom Hanlon:
No, no. For Chicago it's a tough place to get a villa or get somewhere, big house near the center. So we're not doing it for Chicago, we're all just hotelling it. But going forward, depending on where the venue is... We had a beautiful villa in Phoenix, and with such a great time. 20 minutes walk to the venue and it was a nice time of the year, so the weather was excellent. So we had a great time.
John McAllister:
Going back to Mike Moss. I just want to add some, is he still alive?
Tom Hanlon:
I think he is, yeah. I think he is very unwell, but I think he's still alive. Yes, I'm not sure where he is living, but he's still alive. I'm not sure how well he is or isn't.
John McAllister:
I imagine he's in his mid-80s by now. And he was probably like five feet, 10 tall, and not particularly a large man. 6.5, 230 pounds. And Mike threatened to fight me, threatened to beat me up.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, well that's what Mike does. That's what Mike does. Yeah. And he'd probably only be five foot 10, standing on a box. I'd say he was even less than that. But no, he was a tough dude, New Yorker. But I liked him. I liked him, I liked him. He was a scoundrel. I liked him.
John McAllister:
Okay, so you and Leslie, we played you on Sunday in the finals of the Swiss, and on Sunday you guys have a rule that Leslie is not allowed to talk, and you are.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, because I have to go through the whole week, because Les can stop himself, he just talks and talks and talks and talks and talks. He talks to the opponents and keeps talking to them, oddly irritate them. He talks, then he talks to me and says, "Oh look, Hanlon's annoyed now because I'm irritating you or irritating him." And he just talks and talks. So we brought in this new rule last Sunday, he is not allowed to say a word, and I have to tell you, it's the best rule I've ever heard of or invented in my life. I'm hoping it'll catch on for the first Sunday as well. But I think if I keep it at even one Sunday, I'll be happy.
John McAllister:
And so there's no prohibition on your talking on any of the days of the tournament?
Tom Hanlon:
No, no, no, no. So I don't get a word in edge ways, I can't get a word, I never talk. Everybody's supposed to have 3000 words a day and I think Les, between the two of us, we've 6, and I think Les uses all 6,000. So I can't talk.
John McAllister:
How are you the two of you doing this bidding online? Are you doing it on cue bids?
Tom Hanlon:
No, we hired this guy, Jorjik is his name, he is an Indian chap, who has a massive bank of hands. What he does is he basically takes us for 2 hours. We booked him, and I'm doing this with the Irish team as part of the Bemuda Bowl training, we all do this as well. And he basically, whatever topic you want to do, 2-over-1, you want to do Jacoby transfers, whatever area of the game, he'll set up a bank of hands, open a table on BBO, start a three-way WhatsApp call between you and your partner. He runs the show, doesn't say much. He'd contribute if he feels he can help with anything. But it's just amazing. It's very productive. It's something, because it gets you and your partner at the table, which is a big start. I play with Hugh McGann in the Bermuda Bowl, and we have between now and the middle of August, we've 25, 2-hour bidding sessions with Jorjik, and that's 50 hours of bidding. That's a lot for us. And it'll mean that we'll hit the ground running when we get to Marrakesh.
But he also does all... So we'll spend the first half of all those sessions going through the system from A to Z, and giving it a full workout, and the next half will be competitive where the opponents are not silent. The competitive bidding is where it's going to be won and lost in top level bridge, because everybody bids. Everybody's aggressive, so you're never getting a free run in any hand.
John McAllister:
How'd you find this guy?
Tom Hanlon:
Dan Korbel, I think. He works with quite a few of the Americans, so he is also worked with, I know Herman [inaudible 00:23:14] and Reese, and he's worked with the Australian open team. I think he did a lot of work with Massimiliano Di Franco, I think, especially during Covid. And he's done a lot of work with some other American pairs. I just can't remember their names now. I would definitely recommend him to somebody who wants to put in some serious work. You might say, "Well, you'd be able to do that yourself." But the big difference in your commitment when you book dates with your partner, they're set in stone, you turn up, you do your work, you know it's part of your weekly routine. The bank of hands and just the ruling of the whole thing is very smooth. I find that it was very helpful for myself and Les and it's very helpful for Hugh and myself for the Bermuda Bowl, and I would recommend it.
John McAllister:
So you have a set time every week, with you?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, yeah, we did a three-way Zoom meeting, I went through the diary and just picked out. We usually do Mondays and Tuesdays, 9:00 AM Irish time. But if we couldn't do that, another time during that same week. So we tried to do two 2-hour sessions a week. So four hours, it's not a huge amount but it's significant over a long period of time.
John McAllister:
For sure. And does he live, I've only encountered him in Australia, does he live in Australia? Or does he live in...?
Tom Hanlon:
No, he lives in New Zealand at the moment, but he will be coming back next year. He'll be back in the Irish set up from next year, but he'll be playing the Bermuda Bowl this year.
John McAllister:
And this is the first time you guys qualified for the Bermuda Bowl in a long time.
Tom Hanlon:
No, second time. We qualified in 2006 after winning the silver medal in the European Open Championships in Shanghai in 2007. Then was the Bermuda Bowl, we didn't do well, we didn't come out of group stage, so we're hoping to improve in that this time.
John McAllister:
No, I said quite a long time.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, sorry. Quite a long time. Okay, well it's only second time ever. So you could have been right if you said never. Yeah, so...
John McAllister:
Wow. I didn't realize it was only the second.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, in Europe it's quite hard to qualify. It's usually the top 6, sometimes the top 7, teams in Europeans. But finishing in the top 7 in Europeans, out of 35 to 40 teams, where a lot of them are the top 20 to 24 teams, would be professional, full-time teams, it's tough. And you're playing against all the top guys that are all pros in the states. And Ireland, I'm a full-time pro, but the rest of them, they all have jobs. They might do, we have this, do it semi-professionally, but they would certainly all have jobs, and would only play on the Irish team maybe about 50 days a year, or something, 40 to 50 days a year.
John McAllister:
So you guys were 6, so literally you finished on the number then.
Tom Hanlon:
We finished on the number, but no, because of the way it went this year, the top 8 actually qualified this year because Europe got an extra spot. But we had it fairly comfortable because we were never outside of 3rd to 6th during the whole tournament. And we were pretty much a lock going into the last round, but we're pretty sure of qualifying with probably a day or two to go, unless something very bad happened, which obviously always can. But it was, for us it was a big performance. Every country has their own holy grail or things to aim for. Ireland is going to be tough to win a European gold medal or even win a medal. We can win a medal obviously, we finished a close 6th, but getting into the top 10 first of all for the Champions Cup and then the top 7 or 8 for the Bermuda Bowl, they're realistic targets for our sides of country. So we're happy when we achieve them. We can obviously beat any team on our day, it's about doing it over a number of consecutive days, is the problem.
John McAllister:
Any reason why you think you guys qualified last year?
Tom Hanlon:
Purely the work. We have a professional arrangement with the Irish team. We have sponsored Mark Moran who is as good a player as virtually anybody on the team. He's improved a lot but he's had to do that. He approached me in 2013 after we'd had a successful world championship. We got to the semifinals of Rosenblum, unfortunately losing out to one set of cheaters in the semifinal and another set of cheaters in the 3rd four place playoff. But that was unfortunate, so it left a bad taste in the mouth. But after that he approached me to, would I be interested in he as a partner, would I be interested to form a team, and two others from the successful team. And we did that, and we did it with a long term aim of first of all trying to win our own trials at home, and then progressing every year in the European championships.
And we did that, and it was about, now I was hoping that we get into the top 10, and we've got into the top 6. So we've probably qualified for the Bermuda Bowl two years before I thought was our realistic hope. But that was down to a lot of hard work, we played a lot of bridge, we travel a lot. We've had Krzysztof Martens as a coach for a couple of years, who taught us, spent a lot of time with us, and we've put a lot of work into it. So we're hoping the improvement will continue. And all the team, the coach I was telling you about, Jorjik, all the team are using him. They're all doing about 25, 2 hour sessions between now and Bermuda Bowl. So hopefully that will, if we improve 5% or something like that, that's going to make a huge difference to where we finish.
John McAllister:
What do you think it would be like if you guys won the Bermuda Bowl in Ireland?
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, it would be amazing. It would be absolutely amazing. So it's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility. We'll have to leave no stone unturned in our preparation. We'll have to try and get physically fitter between now and then. Do a lot of walking, a lot of running, whatever activities any member of the team can do. We'll have to have zero alcohol. Just all these little things that other teams, because they're more experienced or have a deeper pool of players, can not pay as much attention to. If we can eke out a half or 1% from each pair doing a little bit extra, that adds up hugely for us. If we can get into the knockout stages, even if we're 45%, 55% underdogs in a match, that's still very doable.
John McAllister:
It seems like the names on the Irish team have been the same for a long time.
Tom Hanlon:
Of the team that won in the Bermuda Bowl, there's five basically on the team still, and different partnerships. I'm playing with Hugh, as always. John, he used to play with Tommy Garvey, is playing with Mark. It seems to be a very good fit, and they got on very well and they're playing well. And Nick FitzGibbon, who was playing with Adam Mesbur, unfortunately retired. He played in Europeans last year, in Madeira, and actually qualified, but he unfortunately announced his retirement before we qualified and we had already put in arrangements for new personnel, I suppose. And so Adam is playing with Tommy Garvey, new partnership, and they're working hard and we're hoping that they peak at the right time for Marakesh. And they're doing a lot of work and they'll continue to do a lot of work. You need all three pairs, you see, doing well.
You want all three pairs, you don't need them all to be doing brilliantly, but you need all pairs to be at least maybe breaking even in the butler, that sort of way, about zero ins, even a small bit negative is okay, as long as the other two are going positive. And there's always one pair that hits the form, and it's easy for them, they'll do their scoring, and there's always one pair that runs into bad form. They'll always be the most important pair, because it's how they can minimize the bad form and try and break even in the tournament. And if they break even in the tournament, that could be more important than the form pair being +0.6 of an IMP, or something, in the tournament.
John McAllister:
So you do have a trials in Ireland?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, we do have trials every year, absolutely. I feel the opposition is improving a little. For a good few years it wasn't much opposition because we were a team that was on the road the whole time, playing a lot of bridge. So we were improving as the other teams were standing still. So the gap was getting bigger but now they're beginning to come around and there's a couple of young lads have come through. One guy in particular, Connor Boland is his name, I actually play with him in some tournaments. I played with him in the Camrose, the home international tournaments. I wouldn't be surprised if he is going to force his way into our team in the next year or two. We're going to have to try and make room for him because he's improving a lot and I prefer him to have him in our camp than in the other camp. So I'm hoping that a couple more come through and strengthen the game in Ireland, because if you go past the first five or six pairs it gets quite weak.
John McAllister:
Is your mother still alive?
Tom Hanlon:
Well, my mom actually passed away. She's actually passed away a good... She's 10 years passed now. But she was a great player, a great poker player, great bridge player and probably my biggest fan when I was on the road. Yeah, and she was like, when she died, she was 78 going on 50. She was still on the road 5 nights a week or 6 nights a week. Three nights of poker, three nights of bridge. If I was at a nightclub and stuck for a lift home at three o'clock in the morning, and there was no taxis, I'd know my mom wasn't in bed, and I'd have to make her leave poker early probably to pick me up. She'd be saying, "Hang on for another hour wherever we are and I'll pick you up." So yeah, I do. My friends couldn't believe it how I could get a lift home from my mother at this hour of the night.
John McAllister:
How much poker do you play?
Tom Hanlon:
I play a lot less than I used to. I used to play a lot in... I've always played poker a lot, but online, I got into it in the early '90s while it was still in its infancy. Like everything else, if you get in at the beginning of something, there's a living to be made. And I did quite well for about 6 or 7 years, and then like everything else it got tougher. So I stopped playing online. And I play live, private game, maybe twice a week. Very good private game, very enjoyable, serious enough action, nice food served. It's a private invite, so it's guys that are liked and are likable and it's a great crack. It's a great crack. And so I do well at that. So that keeps me in nice fine wine when I need to.
John McAllister:
What games do y'all play?
Tom Hanlon:
I play just Omaha, cash game only. Like four card hold'em. You have to use two from your hands and two from the board, run out the same way as hold'em.
John McAllister:
I reached out to a couple of your friends. I reached out to Les and Thomas and also John Carroll asking them for possible questions to ask you here. And Thomas told me that he and Les, granted I sent these texts yesterday, so 24 hours ago, and Thomas got back... And it is Irene's birthday today.
Tom Hanlon:
Yes, yes, yes. Thanks for reminding me. I better send a text.
John McAllister:
So Thomas gets back to me... And Leslie says, "Let me think about it. I'll come up with something." And then Thomas gets back to me and says, "We talked about it with Les today and we'll try to come up with a couple, okay?" Well, I haven't heard anything from them back about that question.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, whoa, that's a relief. Well, I'm not surprised.
John McAllister:
But John Carroll did get back to me.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, John.
John McAllister:
And he said... I did, researching the show, I did look up, Christina Madsen had done an interview of you for her mixed teams bulletin. And the impression I got from reading that interview is that you were kind of a Lothario at one point. I mean you're happily with this woman for a long time, but maybe... And Caroll also said something about, I know your nickname on BBO is Kinder, and he suggested that maybe I have you tell that story.
Tom Hanlon:
Well, not a very exciting story, but unfortunately we all get a bit older and everything goes a bit out and west and everything else. So my wild days are long, long, long behind me. But the name of Kinder came from a long, long time ago when I was playing bridge on the junior team. I was in Budapest in '86, I think it was. I was at the bar, I think. Yeah, I might have been sitting out, or something like that. Out at the bar having a beer, and I'd been served by this beautiful, beautiful blonde, buxom barmaid that I was trying to impress. And I was trying my damnedest to flirt with her in an as Irish way as I could. We don't like to be too obvious, but I was trying to get as obvious as I dare. And I was pouring my beer and messing with my beer and having a joke and I said something, I flirted with her, maybe asked her about how long is she working?
"Are you working here all night?" Or whatever. She looks at me up and down and waves her hands at me like this, "Kinder. Kinder." As if to, "Go away, go away. Kinder, kinder, you child." So unfortunately my non-playing captain was within earshot of her calling me a child. And every Irish place then, all my friends called me Kinder from there on in. And they all still do, or a lot of them still do, especially some of the older guys and girls. They all still call me Kinder even though it's 37 years ago.
John McAllister:
And then he also said something about a story with, I'm not going to be able to say this person's name right, but he said something about rabbit stew with [inaudible 00:37:48]. So how do you say that?
Tom Hanlon:
No, no, no, no, no, that's to say, John Carroll is obviously one of my closest friends, best man at his wedding and I'm godfather to one of his children, but he'll have to tell me which of them. I'm only joking, I know it's David. No, it's not. What's his name? No, so that's what... But John, first time he's ever, I'm normally the joker, the one that's taking the Mickey or pulling pranks on everybody, John pulled a prank on me this time. It's too long a story to go into the details of it, and I can't. But put it like this, he went to a lot of effort. It was basically, I think I was flirting with somebody. Put it like this, the next time you meet John Carroll, he'll give you the full story. But it was something like I was away and I was flirting with somebody and made a date, but it was a bit dark when I was doing it. And then I saw the person in the clear daylight and I wasn't as keen.
I'm not as shallow like that anymore, by the way. It was only in my shallow years. But anyway, I made my excuses and left. And about a week or two later I got this email from this person that I was flirting with, saying, we talked, really got on well, want to come to Ireland for a visit. And listed out every single day between, this is the middle of October, between now and the end of the year. And it was every single day except for Christmas day, when of course, she was going to be with her family. So this went on, I obviously thought it was real, and I was getting planking it, because she's going to turn up on the doorstep and I have to say, "Listen, oh yeah, very busy at the moment. I'll get back to you," type of thing. And of course it was John Carroll. He'd gone through the trouble of setting up a dummy email account and sending it to me, and contacting me pretending to be this girl, and had me.
Because then we were playing a tournament and I was calling him over and says, "Lads, lads, you won't believe what's happening to me. Remember that girl from wherever it was, the girl I was hitting on and then decided against it? Now she's emailing me and she's stalking me too." Then basically I see John over on the floor, laughing his eyes out. That was him, that was all he set up. And me going to them, going, "You won't believe it, lads, what's happening to me, I'm get stalked." That was amazing funny by John Carroll. And put it like this, it's a way longer story than that, but I'm giving you the toned down version, the slimmed down version of it.
John McAllister:
Did he actually know the woman's name?
Tom Hanlon:
I can't go into that because the person is probably still around, so I don't want to embarrass anybody.
John McAllister:
Oh, so you knew the name? He had the name. You knew the name of the woman.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, I thought it was this person, I couldn't believe it. When I got the first email, I never told a word to... Normally something like this would happen, I'd be straight on the phone to John said, "You won't believe it. Joan's out there ringing me." But I was so put out by it, I never told a soul. Tried to deal with it myself and keep it calm. Now you've suddenly appeared on camera there, John.
John McAllister:
Oh, really?
Tom Hanlon:
You've appeared on camera now. All of a sudden, after an hour and a quarter, you suddenly appeared on camera. So no, I never mentioned Shannon because I didn't want to... If I said it to somebody it means it was really true. And I just wanted to keep it calm, keep it quiet and deal with it myself. And I couldn't deal with it myself. That's why John, it was actually a stroke of genius by John. It was the funniest I've ever seen him.
John McAllister:
Does your partner play bridge?
Tom Hanlon:
She does. She just played a two session tournament yesterday. And she played with my sister and they came, it was 56, it was National finals of the Inter A and Master. And she's a B1, which is a grade below. But she was playing two grades higher than her, then done her designated grade and they finished 19th out of 56 pairs, which was a... I'm very proud of her, I told her. And she was very good. She's got a lot of talent and she will be a good player, and I just hope she keeps it up. But she's playing twice a week and she's even competing hands with Frederick Faulker [inaudible 00:42:30] on cue bids. Because when I was away...
I'm playing a lot with Fred at the moment on the Irish team because he was away in New Zealand. So Fred is playing, we just came back from [inaudible 00:42:40] and the Spring Fours in England and we're heading to [inaudible 00:42:44] next week. So I said to Fred, he was on cue bids, I hadn't even heard of it until Nula told me about it and was trying to get me to bid hands with her. So I got Fred to friend her on cue bids, and now the two of them are bidding hands away. I hope both their games improve. Only joking, Fred. Fred is a top player.
John McAllister:
Did you go over some of the hands from yesterday with her?
Tom Hanlon:
I will do, actually. I'll invite herself and my sister, who lives up the road. They're both very enthusiastic players and they'll both be good players. I go through the hands with them in a day or two, get them over here, have a coffee and go through them. Because that's the best way, I keep telling them, that's how you learn. If I'm telling you this is what you should do on this hand, well, you might have to play 10 games to come up with this position to learn it. So if you're getting... And even, it doesn't have to be your mistake or your play that you can learn from, I'll tell you this is what should be open, this is what should be led, this is how many tricks you should make. You're going to learn a lot in a condensed 20 boards or 40 boards. There was two sessions. So they played 52 boards, which was a... So I was very happy for them, they were both very happy. And they were the poorest first session and they were over 60% in the second session. So they were delighted.
John McAllister:
Does your son play?
Tom Hanlon:
No, no. He tried to follow me in the poker world and unfortunately it was a lot easier to make a living playing poker when I first started out, for many reasons. It wasn't as popular, so there was less good players. And now, when we had the boom there was a lot of money to be made, but it's like everything else, after so many years, the people that are left are only the very good players, the top players. And there's so many young kids now that they basically have a move created digitally for every scenario they encounter live, you know what I mean? So it's a tougher game, especially tournaments. Because it's this A game strategy and it's discussed way more now than it ever was when I was learning. You just played purely from the seat of your pants, when I was playing.
John McAllister:
What percentage of deals from bids, from New Orleans, for example, do you think you...? Like play problems? Like bidding problems are easier to present, but what percentage of play problems do you share with your group of friends?
Tom Hanlon:
Well, I'm on a group of, we're on an email group, different players from around the world. We've got Zia, Sabine, Roy, Chip, and Marty and lot of the Scandies, Andy Robson, David Gold, Sartaj Hans from Australia and Frederic Wrang. Like whose who, there's about 20 of us on the panel, Michael Rosenberg. So what we do is somebody has, every week or every few days somebody puts up a hand, bidding, or play, or defense, and puts it up and everybody gives their answers, gives their ideas. It's a great discussion group for exchanging ideas because they're genuinely from all corners of the world, around this group. So it's a nice group to be part of and some interesting hands come up and you're always learning something.
John McAllister:
How did you get to be part of that group?
Tom Hanlon:
I was just asked to be. I played for a few years with Zia and probably joined it around that time when I was playing with him. So he would include me in the emails and they haven't kicked me off it yet. So obviously everybody respects everybody else's opinion, which is great. And nobody's afraid to give their opinion, because nobody's going to look stupid, because bridge is a game of opinions, people have their own opinion. And even if it's wrong, it's not going to be that wrong. It might be a little bit less likely than another way. But we all know the percentages for different actions, but the environment changes these percentages sometimes.
John McAllister:
What's the format for people responding to somebody's question? Do you wait a couple of days? Do you do respond privately? How do you keep from having your logic effect others in the group's response?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, I know. We don't, we just reply. And usually people don't agree with someone's opinion just because it's put up there first. The people aren't afraid to say something different, because opening need, first of all, is only an opinion, it doesn't have to be right or wrong in this particular hand. But it's great to see the different logic for different reasons. And nobody's afraid to give a wrong answer, even though when you know it's not the winning answer, because that's the answer you would give at the table. And if the question has been posed, it must mean that this alternative is the winning action or line or whatever. But nobody picks it, because we know it's inferior, even though we don't know. Obviously this action is probably working on this hand, but to be honest, this is what we do at the table.
And everybody answers at different speeds or whatever. And there's some great guys in that give long, long detailed answers, like Michael Rosenberg. It's such a pleasure to get emails from him because he does go into an awful lot of logic and reasoning. Some of the rest of us, we give one line or two lines, we'll say the answer, and this is why. But reading his logic, it's amazing the things he does think of when he is working out a problem.
John McAllister:
I've got a good Michael Rosenberg. So my team for the trials, our teammates were Debbie Rosenberg playing with Max Shearson, and we lost in the first round to Kevin Rosenberg playing with Brian Platnick and Kit and Bart. And so it was a two-day match, and we had met with Michael before the match. And then after the match we're licking our wounds in the lobby of the hotel where it's all taking place. And there's this one hand, and I'm going to give you this as a bidding problem. So I had Ace fourth, Queen and one, Ace third, and 4 little. So we're favorable and you deal in first seat and you pass, and it goes pass from lefty, and partner opens 2 diamonds, and Platnick, on your right over, calls three clubs.
Tom Hanlon:
What are the colors?
John McAllister:
Favorable.
Tom Hanlon:
My shape is?
John McAllister:
4-2-3-4.
Tom Hanlon:
Clubs are four little?
John McAllister:
Yeah. And I think he maybe had the 9. Michael knew the exact spots, he watched, he kibitz the hand life. He told me he knew the spots for all four hands by the way.
Tom Hanlon:
Okay. I'm not surprised. And double is penalty here, yeah?
John McAllister:
Yeah. I don't know because I'm a [inaudible 00:49:57].
Tom Hanlon:
It just...
John McAllister:
Yeah?
Tom Hanlon:
It should be. I'm sure it should be penalty, but I don't see anything wrong with 3 diamonds.
John McAllister:
Okay, so-
Tom Hanlon:
That's your story, isn't it?
John McAllister:
So what I did was I passed, and the reason I passed is because I was like, they have a heart fit and I don't want to make it easy for Kevin to double and then get to their hearts.
Tom Hanlon:
But he's going to bid 3 diamonds, though. Well yeah, if you want to psych something, but it might be 4 diamonds.
John McAllister:
Anyway, but I had-
Tom Hanlon:
You have two Aces.
John McAllister:
I know, but I thought Kevin probably has a hand that it's going to be hard for him to bid. And anyway, I passed it, it had floated. And so we're licking our wounds from losing, and I said to Michael, and I go... He said, "I saw it." And I said, "I passed." And we gave each other a high 5. Kevin was 5-4 in the majors, 5-4-2-2, was 5 spades. And he passed and they do make 4 hearts. But I'm regretting telling this story, because I feel like the shine came off.
Tom Hanlon:
No, no, your logic is very good. Your logic is very good. But no, absolutely, you can probably win 3 diamonds over 3 clubs with the same hand, if you'd had a good enough hand to bid over 3 diamonds.
John McAllister:
He had King 5th, I think he had the Ace 4th, of hearts, 2-2. No, that's not... Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Hanlon:
Okay. But he could easily just bid 3 diamonds if he wanted to get to 5th hand. But I don't know. I know double makes it more convenient, but you have to... But listen, your logic in the hand is quite sound, you don't want to get into their hearts. And it's a heart contract, but it's a couple of Aces so maybe it's a part score battle. Who knows? Your partner could have a short club, which means he's 3-3 in a majors, makes it a lot less likely 4 of a major is making. You can sometimes make 5 diamonds here. It's open third hand, it could be pretty good. It could be pretty bad as well. But he could... So who knows?
John McAllister:
Anyway, it was a cool thing to get a high 5 from Michael Rosenberg.
Tom Hanlon:
Absolutely, absolutely. Because he loves that theory strategy, the whole... There's always a difference between the right thing to do in a hand and the correct thing to do in a hand. But sometimes you make a mistake, forces them to make a bigger mistake as well sometimes.
John McAllister:
What else we got here?
Tom Hanlon:
You must nearly have enough material.
John McAllister:
You were good friends with Justin Lall. You were good friends with Justin Lall.
Tom Hanlon:
Very much so. He came over to my house for Christmas 2015. We had an epic time, brilliant time. We spent like 10 days over here, and with such a fantastic time with himself and Steph. And it's a great memory to have with him. Obviously a tragedy, travesty, whatever you want to put it, that he's gone so young. But he didn't find life here that easy anyway, in his struggles. But he was a very deep and loyal friend, he was a great guy. We all still miss him a lot.
John McAllister:
Yeah, for sure.
Tom Hanlon:
We won't forget him though. There's always a good J. Lall story to tell at every nationals.
John McAllister:
What's your favorite tournament?
Tom Hanlon:
My favorite tournament, probably my favorite for bridge is European Championships. It's intense bridge, high quality bridge. And usually doesn't matter where you are, you really... Well, we, anyway, in Ireland, we like to come 11th instead of 15th. So every place we finish higher up, we want to achieve it. So we try and keep it going from start to finish. I love the intensity of it. I love the national pride of playing for your country. There's so many events now that you're playing commercially, and you're not playing for your country anymore. And it's only a few of them, like with the Olympiad, we have the European Championships and we've got the Camrose, which is the home international. After that, the Champion's Cup, if you get into it, the Bermuda Bowl. But there's nothing better than playing for your country. Nothing.
John McAllister:
If you could win one event, what would it be?
Tom Hanlon:
Bermuda Bowl. That's what we really would love to do. Especially coming from Ireland, we do punch above our weight, I think, because getting a silver medal, getting to Olympiad semi-finals when it's a very small pool of players, it needs all the stars to be aligned and for the six players on the team to be available and free to play at the same time, and commit to whatever couple years that you need to play in a tournament, and prepare for a tournament. So I think Bermuda Bowl would be something I would love to achieve. It may never happen, but it's certainly not a fantasy, because the format is get through the first week. It's a coin flipping, a lot of these matches. So you just need to swing that percentage around from slight underdog into slight favorite. And our team, with a bit of a tweaking and improvement can certainly get there. So I'm hoping.
John McAllister:
You've had a partnership with your Irish partner, Hugh McGann, for 40 years?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, well, not quite 40 now, we're not that old. But we got together in the juniors probably about 1990, so about 33. About '91 maybe, 32 years ago.
John McAllister:
That's probably one of the longest running partnerships in bridge, I would think.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah. He is obviously in New Zealand, but we still play on some online events and he was actually over in Copenhagen doing a lecture, or some sort of working last week, so he came over to Dublin and we had a day's practice with the rest of the team. And he'll come back to Ireland about the beginning of August. So he'll have over two weeks here, and we have plenty of practices and live events ready to get him tuned up, and to get both of us sharpened. But yeah, we get on anyway. We're very good friends as well. So we suit each other. He puts up with me and I put up with him.
John McAllister:
I've admired the culture of the ACEs for a long time. You guys have anything like that with your team, in terms of when there's an inferior bid or play made?
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah. Well, first of all, the first thing we put together as a team, we wrote down... We employed a full-time captain to look after us. And her name is Grainne Barton, and she does a great job. She knows how to deal with everybody, because we're all very close friends as well, which is obviously great, but a hindrance as well. But at least she knows how to deal with everybody. But first thing we did as a team was wrote out a code of conduct for the entire team. And the entire team, and everybody that's been on the team or has come into the team, has to subscribe to it and sign up to it. And it covers all areas of the game, your conduct, what's expected of you. And there's not a lot, because we like to have a good time as well. We like to go for a nice dinner, have a couple of glasses of wine, but we just have to keep everything nicely controlled and done properly. Not fall out.
Everybody has their own faults. Sometimes I would rant a little bit if I wasn't happy with what was the scoresheets that were coming out, and I got to learn to calm that down, because teammates never go back in and play better after you're screaming at them. So they usually do better if you encourage them. So we're much better at doing that. We try not to discuss the hands during the day at all. We can discuss them at night over dinner, but again, if anybody gets a bit overboard, a bit out of hand, they'll get the look and they'll be told quietly to improve your behavior, or whatever. But it doesn't happen often because the team gets on very well. We're a team that we like spending time together, we'll go for dinner and enjoy every single time together. So that's why winning a Bermuda Bowl would be just such a nirvana for us all.
John McAllister:
Well, I'm going to be rooting for the Irish, got a little special insight into the Irish team. One last thing I want to share with you is, my youngest sister just had her first child, and her father, my stepdad, is Irish.
Tom Hanlon:
Oh, nice.
John McAllister:
And so she named the baby Saoirse.
Tom Hanlon:
Saoirse, yeah. Yeah, that's Mark's baby. Mark Morne. Sorcha, S-O-R-C-H-A, or S-A-O-I-R-S-H-E, or something.
John McAllister:
S-A-O-I-R-S-E.
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, like Saoirse Ronan. We've a famous Irish actress, Saoirse Ronan, she's in a lot of movies now in the States. It's a very Irish name, lovely name. Very, very pretty name.
John McAllister:
Yeah. It means freedom, as I'm sure you know.
Tom Hanlon:
Yep.
John McAllister:
And she spent some time over there in her college days. She's got an aunt that she's close to. And yeah, just wanted to get that out there into the...
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah. Lucky girl, lucky name.
John McAllister:
All right. Well, I'll be in touch with you when we publish this, and I really appreciate you doing it. It's good to be with you. I had a good time with you and Les at the table. You guys have...
Tom Hanlon:
Yeah, of course. You have to have a bit of fun, man.
John McAllister:
I love the spirit, and grateful to you for doing this, so thank you.
Tom Hanlon:
No, not at all. And if Les or Thomas ever get back with those questions, then you can add them in if it's possible, and I'll answer them certainly if you want to. Or if you want to, email me the questions and I'll come back online for five minutes and answer them if it's possible to add them in. Other than that, it's been a pleasure to be on your show, John, and wish you all the best for the future.
John McAllister:
Thanks. And remember to wish Irene a happy birthday.
Tom Hanlon:
I'll do that right now before I get in trouble.
John McAllister:
All right, buddy.
Tom Hanlon:
Good luck. Thank you, John. Good luck. Bye-bye.
John McAllister:
Thank you. Bye.
Since this conversation took place, Tom and I both played in the European Championships in Strasbourg, France, and for those curious, Tom's team finished 12th in the qualifying, and then unfortunately lost to the Street team in the round of 32 of the knockouts. The McAllister team spent a good bit of the first two days in qualifying position, and unfortunately we really spit the bit on the third qualifying day, and we're 62nd. It was, however, a pleasure to team up with Tom Jacob and his partner Brian Mace, for the first time. I was playing with Tom's son, Nick. And Nick we're thinking about you and your wife Ella today. And we also got to celebrate Brian's 70th birthday in Strasbourg, and just another example of the community of bridge is worldwide. I look forward to seeing you at our next tournament, and please tell your friends about The Setting Trick. And if you're feeling really generous, leave us a review, a good one.